1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:05,539 episode six of tales from the rabbit 2 00:00:11,900 --> 00:00:08,970 hole my guest today is Tim Osman at 3 00:00:14,839 --> 00:00:11,910 least that's the name he goes by Tim is 4 00:00:17,660 --> 00:00:14,849 a conspiracy theorist and he is a deep 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:17,670 bunker he has done a lot of very good 6 00:00:22,010 --> 00:00:20,130 work debunking the Flat Earth conspiracy 7 00:00:24,859 --> 00:00:22,020 theory by making videos demonstrating 8 00:00:28,370 --> 00:00:24,869 the curve using drones and suchlike and 9 00:00:30,950 --> 00:00:28,380 he's also very into conspiracy theories 10 00:00:33,530 --> 00:00:30,960 like 9/11 in terms of actually believing 11 00:00:35,510 --> 00:00:33,540 that 9/11 was an inside job and other 12 00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:35,520 conspiracies like that so he draws the 13 00:00:39,530 --> 00:00:37,380 line on the conspiracy spectrum at a 14 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:39,540 different position that idea the 15 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:41,370 conversation kind of starts off a little 16 00:00:46,729 --> 00:00:43,890 bit of a serial and Tim kind of ends up 17 00:00:50,330 --> 00:00:46,739 interrogating me about my beliefs but we 18 00:00:54,319 --> 00:00:50,340 end up having a good time all right 19 00:00:55,459 --> 00:00:54,329 so should we just get into it yeah 20 00:00:58,549 --> 00:00:55,469 absolutely all right 21 00:01:01,040 --> 00:00:58,559 so I am recording this for use on my 22 00:01:03,709 --> 00:01:01,050 podcast which I've been running for like 23 00:01:07,130 --> 00:01:03,719 a few weeks now and what it is is 24 00:01:08,929 --> 00:01:07,140 podcasts where I talk to people who are 25 00:01:11,780 --> 00:01:08,939 involved in conspiracy culture basically 26 00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:11,790 I try to talk to people who are former 27 00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:13,110 conspiracy theorists or current 28 00:01:17,990 --> 00:01:14,430 conspiracy theories or people who are 29 00:01:20,179 --> 00:01:18,000 just like debunkers and investigators 30 00:01:23,270 --> 00:01:20,189 and I think you are kind of all of the 31 00:01:26,539 --> 00:01:23,280 above to some degree or another would 32 00:01:28,370 --> 00:01:26,549 you agree with that well I would 33 00:01:30,890 --> 00:01:28,380 actually probably first want to start 34 00:01:32,530 --> 00:01:30,900 out by for you to give me a definition 35 00:01:37,060 --> 00:01:32,540 of what a conspiracy theorist is 36 00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:37,070 actually well a conspiracy theory is a 37 00:01:42,830 --> 00:01:40,590 positive explanation for large-scale 38 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:42,840 events that involves some kind of 39 00:01:47,539 --> 00:01:44,090 large-scale 40 00:01:49,490 --> 00:01:47,549 high powered conspiracy theory there's 41 00:01:53,060 --> 00:01:49,500 obviously a conspiracy theory and the 42 00:01:54,980 --> 00:01:53,070 simple sense of that a conspiracy by 43 00:01:59,420 --> 00:01:54,990 powerful people usually for nefarious 44 00:02:03,230 --> 00:01:59,430 purposes like for example the theory 45 00:02:05,149 --> 00:02:03,240 that JFK was killed by secret elements 46 00:02:07,670 --> 00:02:05,159 within the US government or bicycling 47 00:02:09,619 --> 00:02:07,680 elements within the CIA would be 48 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:09,629 considered a conspiracy theory because 49 00:02:14,270 --> 00:02:12,330 it seeks to explain an event by a 50 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:14,280 powerful conspiracy 51 00:02:20,930 --> 00:02:17,010 amongst higher-level people than in 52 00:02:22,310 --> 00:02:20,940 secret for nefarious purposes under that 53 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:22,320 definition then would you consider 54 00:02:28,250 --> 00:02:25,650 yourself as a conspiracy theorist as as 55 00:02:32,660 --> 00:02:28,260 far as 9/11 comes because there's a 56 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:32,670 conspiracy that 17 ish box-cutter people 57 00:02:42,020 --> 00:02:37,230 came on planes and basically foiled 58 00:02:44,810 --> 00:02:42,030 NORAD and flew around for 45 minutes and 59 00:02:47,420 --> 00:02:44,820 crashed planes into buildings and the 60 00:02:49,130 --> 00:02:47,430 Pentagon and in Shanksville would you 61 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:49,140 consider yourself then a conspiracy 62 00:02:53,660 --> 00:02:51,330 theorist or maybe even will add 63 00:02:54,979 --> 00:02:53,670 mainstream conspiracy theorists well I 64 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:54,989 see we're gonna get into semantics that 65 00:02:59,360 --> 00:02:57,690 like what we talked about is a yeah you 66 00:03:01,310 --> 00:02:59,370 could call it a theory or hypothesis 67 00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:01,320 although the current prevailing theory 68 00:03:05,990 --> 00:03:04,590 and it involves a conspiracy but you 69 00:03:07,970 --> 00:03:06,000 know what people normally understand by 70 00:03:11,020 --> 00:03:07,980 a conspiracy theory is something done by 71 00:03:15,020 --> 00:03:11,030 people high up in power of you know the 72 00:03:18,740 --> 00:03:15,030 state that you are in so it the theory 73 00:03:21,110 --> 00:03:18,750 that I believe happened on 9/11 is kind 74 00:03:24,830 --> 00:03:21,120 of what you say hijackers hijacking 75 00:03:25,910 --> 00:03:24,840 planes they didn't all use box cutters 76 00:03:30,350 --> 00:03:25,920 some of them actually had quite large 77 00:03:32,539 --> 00:03:30,360 knives but minor point and it is it was 78 00:03:37,789 --> 00:03:32,549 a conspiracy and I guess you know if you 79 00:03:40,370 --> 00:03:37,799 want to kind of try to argue on 80 00:03:41,570 --> 00:03:40,380 semantics then yeah that is a conspiracy 81 00:03:43,699 --> 00:03:41,580 theory but what people normally 82 00:03:46,759 --> 00:03:43,709 understand by conspiracy theory is not 83 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:46,769 something like that well of course we 84 00:03:50,090 --> 00:03:48,390 were defining terms so that would 85 00:03:51,979 --> 00:03:50,100 definitely fall in the lines of 86 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:51,989 semantics so that's why I wanted to 87 00:03:56,810 --> 00:03:54,450 clarify because in my opinion Medibank 88 00:03:58,940 --> 00:03:56,820 calm doesn't actually really go into any 89 00:04:01,460 --> 00:03:58,950 of the conspiracies that are known that 90 00:04:04,850 --> 00:04:01,470 were conspiracy theories and actually 91 00:04:08,150 --> 00:04:04,860 tries to upheaval some of the people 92 00:04:11,210 --> 00:04:08,160 like 9/11 architects and engineers for 93 00:04:13,670 --> 00:04:11,220 9/11 truth and other people that are 94 00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:13,680 actually probably more qualified than 95 00:04:17,030 --> 00:04:15,209 yourself and the people that are on your 96 00:04:18,890 --> 00:04:17,040 forum yeah well what I try to do is just 97 00:04:22,010 --> 00:04:18,900 focus on things where I figure I can 98 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:22,020 actually bring some of my minor 99 00:04:25,290 --> 00:04:23,610 expertise to bear like I have a little 100 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:25,300 bit of expertise and 101 00:04:32,670 --> 00:04:29,650 like physics and 3d graphics and things 102 00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:32,680 like that and if some just experience in 103 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:35,440 looking into these things so what are 104 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:37,330 meta bunk I tend to focus on things 105 00:04:42,270 --> 00:04:39,849 where I can actually figure stuff out 106 00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:42,280 and and contribute to the greater 107 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:44,409 knowledge base so you know I do address 108 00:04:49,379 --> 00:04:48,370 things like 911 and I do criticize a lot 109 00:04:52,230 --> 00:04:49,389 of the stuff that architects and 110 00:04:53,219 --> 00:04:52,240 engineers put out but I don't think you 111 00:04:55,950 --> 00:04:53,229 know you really want to focus on 112 00:04:57,689 --> 00:04:55,960 qualifications so much if you can 113 00:04:59,999 --> 00:04:57,699 actually look at what people are saying 114 00:05:02,370 --> 00:05:00,009 and tell for yourself whether it's true 115 00:05:05,309 --> 00:05:02,380 or not you know we're not going by who 116 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:05,319 has the the biggest degree and is saying 117 00:05:09,059 --> 00:05:06,610 something because you can always find 118 00:05:10,559 --> 00:05:09,069 somebody with a degree to say something 119 00:05:12,749 --> 00:05:10,569 you can probably find someone with a PhD 120 00:05:15,059 --> 00:05:12,759 and something who says the earth is flat 121 00:05:16,860 --> 00:05:15,069 I know you can certainly say find people 122 00:05:19,860 --> 00:05:16,870 with PhDs in physics there's a guy with 123 00:05:23,399 --> 00:05:19,870 a PhD in physics whose name escapes me 124 00:05:25,050 --> 00:05:23,409 for the moment but he he believes in 125 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:25,060 chemtrails he's a strong chem trail 126 00:05:30,749 --> 00:05:28,690 believer and yet his demonstrative wrong 127 00:05:33,180 --> 00:05:30,759 so just because someone is you know 128 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:33,190 qualified doesn't mean that everything 129 00:05:36,390 --> 00:05:34,930 they say is going to be more correct 130 00:05:38,300 --> 00:05:36,400 than someone else you really have to 131 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:38,310 look at what people are actually saying 132 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:41,110 on the kind of grand scheme of things 133 00:05:46,409 --> 00:05:44,110 would you say that your epistemic 134 00:05:49,519 --> 00:05:46,419 beliefs in some of these things that you 135 00:05:52,980 --> 00:05:49,529 say on meta bunk are actually due to 136 00:05:57,719 --> 00:05:52,990 basically virtually always from the 137 00:05:59,850 --> 00:05:57,729 mainstream well it kinda depends what 138 00:06:01,499 --> 00:05:59,860 you're talking about because a lot of 139 00:06:03,629 --> 00:06:01,509 the stuff is fairly esoteric that 140 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:03,639 doesn't even really the mainstream media 141 00:06:07,740 --> 00:06:06,490 for example doesn't really talk about it 142 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:07,750 but if you wanna talk about mainstream 143 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:10,650 science I know you do a lot of work in 144 00:06:17,219 --> 00:06:14,889 flat earth debunking and what you do you 145 00:06:19,260 --> 00:06:17,229 know you could say is it's mainstream 146 00:06:21,870 --> 00:06:19,270 because it's mainstream science and it's 147 00:06:24,510 --> 00:06:21,880 certainly the view of the world that the 148 00:06:26,089 --> 00:06:24,520 mainstream media would portray and the 149 00:06:29,370 --> 00:06:26,099 alternative views are extremely 150 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:29,380 alternative views so yeah if you want to 151 00:06:34,290 --> 00:06:31,810 say like am i doing mainstream stuff I 152 00:06:37,529 --> 00:06:34,300 believe in the standard model of the 153 00:06:38,910 --> 00:06:37,539 world and I think that the standard 154 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:38,920 explanation the 155 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:41,410 explanation of the collapses of the 156 00:06:47,670 --> 00:06:44,650 buildings on 9/11 is fairly reasonable 157 00:06:50,070 --> 00:06:47,680 so you go with the 9/11 Commission 158 00:06:52,170 --> 00:06:50,080 report and the NIST report about the 159 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:52,180 pancaking buildings 160 00:06:56,190 --> 00:06:54,010 well they didn't pancake as such that's 161 00:06:59,250 --> 00:06:56,200 kind of a bit of a misnomer they it was 162 00:07:02,070 --> 00:06:59,260 a progressive collapse the pancaking 163 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:02,080 floors isn't really a thing as such but 164 00:07:06,210 --> 00:07:04,000 yeah I think the NIST report if you read 165 00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:06,220 the NIST reports in full and you know 166 00:07:09,180 --> 00:07:07,480 I've gone through most of them and this 167 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:09,190 is quite a lot Asst you know thousands 168 00:07:13,170 --> 00:07:11,530 of pages when you when you add up all 169 00:07:14,820 --> 00:07:13,180 the individual things like the stuff 170 00:07:16,890 --> 00:07:14,830 there's like one entire report just 171 00:07:18,930 --> 00:07:16,900 devoted to the the fire and then there's 172 00:07:20,490 --> 00:07:18,940 another one just about the mechanics for 173 00:07:22,050 --> 00:07:20,500 the building and then there's the plane 174 00:07:23,370 --> 00:07:22,060 impacts there's all kinds of things but 175 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:23,380 yeah if you look at them as a whole I 176 00:07:27,420 --> 00:07:25,450 think they're broadly correct now I 177 00:07:30,990 --> 00:07:27,430 think there's certainly problems with 178 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:31,000 them because there are simply simply 179 00:07:35,460 --> 00:07:33,610 limits to how much you can do with a you 180 00:07:38,580 --> 00:07:35,470 know small time scale investigation and 181 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:38,590 their computing power at the time with 182 00:07:43,230 --> 00:07:40,690 the money that they had available didn't 183 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:43,240 really yeah that's actually it's 184 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:45,370 actually one thing I wanted to get in to 185 00:07:50,660 --> 00:07:47,770 you with I guess the u.s. spent about 186 00:07:54,350 --> 00:07:50,670 five point six trillion dollars 187 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:54,360 indifferent obviously a lot of war time 188 00:08:00,780 --> 00:07:57,970 type stuff since 2001 but also I'm just 189 00:08:02,550 --> 00:08:00,790 wondering how you feel about the 9/11 190 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:02,560 Commission report being allocated about 191 00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:05,860 15 million dollars and Tom Kean and Lee 192 00:08:11,610 --> 00:08:07,870 Hamilton saying that it was basically 193 00:08:14,370 --> 00:08:11,620 set up to fail but also how we we how we 194 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:14,380 spent 40 million for the shuttle 195 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:17,410 disaster we star spent 47 million and 196 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:19,690 five years investigating Clinton right 197 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:22,890 and as of recently the muir report 198 00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:25,810 investigation was spent 25 million 199 00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:27,430 dollars on taxpayer well I think what 200 00:08:31,290 --> 00:08:29,830 people miss there is that you 201 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:31,300 essentially got the entire resources of 202 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:33,970 the FBI and the CIA for free and that's 203 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:35,530 not factored into the cost of the 204 00:08:42,060 --> 00:08:39,610 investigation after 9/11 the FBI and the 205 00:08:46,110 --> 00:08:42,070 CIA were put in pretty much half of 206 00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:46,120 their assets onto investigating 9/11 so 207 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:47,500 it's not as if we've just got like a few 208 00:08:50,850 --> 00:08:49,210 million dollars thrown to a little a 209 00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:50,860 committee to do like one little report 210 00:08:55,310 --> 00:08:52,800 we've got the entire 211 00:08:56,990 --> 00:08:55,320 force of the FBI and the FBI has an 212 00:08:58,220 --> 00:08:57,000 extraordinarily large budget I don't 213 00:09:00,620 --> 00:08:58,230 know where it is but you know it's 214 00:09:02,210 --> 00:09:00,630 probably in the billions of dollars and 215 00:09:04,490 --> 00:09:02,220 so half of that went to investigating 216 00:09:07,759 --> 00:09:04,500 9/11 and not just for a few months for 217 00:09:09,290 --> 00:09:07,769 four years so it's it's a misnomer it's 218 00:09:10,910 --> 00:09:09,300 a mistake to say that you know there's a 219 00:09:12,350 --> 00:09:10,920 small nod some money allocated to the 220 00:09:14,990 --> 00:09:12,360 investigation when really there was a 221 00:09:17,150 --> 00:09:15,000 huge amount of money allocated to the 222 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:17,160 investigation the official numbers are 223 00:09:22,009 --> 00:09:20,490 15 million now but that was a report 224 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:22,019 that's just for people you know writing 225 00:09:26,660 --> 00:09:23,490 the report when they get to draw upon 226 00:09:28,430 --> 00:09:26,670 what the FBI did well we could say that 227 00:09:30,350 --> 00:09:28,440 about any of the ones that I just listed 228 00:09:34,250 --> 00:09:30,360 off Mueller investigation I'm sure a lot 229 00:09:36,740 --> 00:09:34,260 of the FBI manpower and time and stuff 230 00:09:39,139 --> 00:09:36,750 isn't actually into that so the original 231 00:09:42,110 --> 00:09:39,149 claim was that 15 million was allocated 232 00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:42,120 for basically the biggest crime here in 233 00:09:47,630 --> 00:09:44,510 America and the people that were in it 234 00:09:50,389 --> 00:09:47,640 say they claim that it was pretty much 235 00:09:52,699 --> 00:09:50,399 set up to fail that's you know what one 236 00:09:54,350 --> 00:09:52,709 quote from one guy maybe two guys 237 00:09:56,630 --> 00:09:54,360 actually I think Tom Kean and we 238 00:09:57,889 --> 00:09:56,640 Hamilton it's - yeah I guess you look 239 00:10:01,940 --> 00:09:57,899 into what they actually mean by that 240 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:01,950 yeah they the investigation was in part 241 00:10:08,810 --> 00:10:05,010 to identify failings in the US defenses 242 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:08,820 and I think that they are correct to a 243 00:10:16,250 --> 00:10:12,690 degree and that no one was really 244 00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:16,260 punished for the failings that led up to 245 00:10:22,370 --> 00:10:19,440 9/11 so was anyone ever convicted of a 246 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:22,380 crime another time no all right nothing 247 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:24,410 that comes to mind it may be some little 248 00:10:29,449 --> 00:10:26,850 incidental things like being a little 249 00:10:31,610 --> 00:10:29,459 local corruption revealed but 250 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:31,620 specifically alike you know there were 251 00:10:35,150 --> 00:10:33,750 there were problems on 9/11 like Jets 252 00:10:38,180 --> 00:10:35,160 were sent in the wrong direction like 253 00:10:42,230 --> 00:10:38,190 information wasn't passed between 254 00:10:44,449 --> 00:10:42,240 agencies people were given visas when 255 00:10:46,069 --> 00:10:44,459 the perhaps shouldn't have been so 256 00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:46,079 there's all these these actual problems 257 00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:48,990 but I think that there was a sense 258 00:10:53,110 --> 00:10:51,120 perhaps sure on the upper levels of the 259 00:10:55,699 --> 00:10:53,120 government that they didn't want to be 260 00:10:58,759 --> 00:10:55,709 pointing fingers and infighting when 261 00:11:01,010 --> 00:10:58,769 really the real enemy was across the 262 00:11:03,079 --> 00:11:01,020 ocean and that they wanted didn't want 263 00:11:04,430 --> 00:11:03,089 to distract from that so it could well 264 00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:04,440 be that the Commission was set up to 265 00:11:09,290 --> 00:11:06,240 fail in some regards and that 266 00:11:11,179 --> 00:11:09,300 it didn't actually assign blame to the 267 00:11:14,780 --> 00:11:11,189 intelligence community for the failings 268 00:11:17,179 --> 00:11:14,790 of 911 so you're kind of touched on it 269 00:11:22,699 --> 00:11:17,189 but how do you feel about the war games 270 00:11:24,439 --> 00:11:22,709 that were happening that day yeah it's 271 00:11:26,090 --> 00:11:24,449 an interesting thing you know you it's 272 00:11:30,379 --> 00:11:26,100 quite people quite often bring things up 273 00:11:33,079 --> 00:11:30,389 like that there was some drills in a lot 274 00:11:35,299 --> 00:11:33,089 of cases like they talked about the 275 00:11:37,689 --> 00:11:35,309 Boston Marathon and there was some drill 276 00:11:40,189 --> 00:11:37,699 apparently happening at the same time 277 00:11:41,749 --> 00:11:40,199 but I think a lot of those are kind of 278 00:11:44,869 --> 00:11:41,759 taken out of context like there was a 279 00:11:46,639 --> 00:11:44,879 drill for a plane hitting a building on 280 00:11:47,929 --> 00:11:46,649 the same day what Gina sounds like an 281 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:47,939 amazing coincidence when you look into 282 00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,110 what it was it was like they were 283 00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:51,360 talking about a small plane hitting a 284 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:54,240 low building in a different part of the 285 00:11:57,859 --> 00:11:55,649 country and it was just essentially like 286 00:12:00,410 --> 00:11:57,869 a fire drill type thing you know what do 287 00:12:02,119 --> 00:12:00,420 we do in some yeah and George Bush and 288 00:12:03,889 --> 00:12:02,129 Condoleezza Rice denied that they've 289 00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:03,899 ever planned for anything right like 290 00:12:08,989 --> 00:12:06,480 that right planes hitting buildings yeah 291 00:12:11,239 --> 00:12:08,999 but when they say like that that doesn't 292 00:12:12,919 --> 00:12:11,249 mean like a plane crashing into a 293 00:12:15,499 --> 00:12:12,929 building is this you know essentially a 294 00:12:17,119 --> 00:12:15,509 simple matter of if it's a small plane 295 00:12:18,499 --> 00:12:17,129 hitting a small building it's just 296 00:12:22,579 --> 00:12:18,509 something the fire department would deal 297 00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:22,589 with but too for planes being hijacked 298 00:12:25,699 --> 00:12:24,240 simultaneously and flown into the World 299 00:12:27,470 --> 00:12:25,709 Trade Center and the Pentagon and 300 00:12:29,809 --> 00:12:27,480 possibly the you know the Capitol might 301 00:12:32,539 --> 00:12:29,819 have been the other girl yeah I think 302 00:12:34,730 --> 00:12:32,549 it's reasonable to say that the 303 00:12:36,319 --> 00:12:34,740 descriptions of that day did not fit the 304 00:12:38,539 --> 00:12:36,329 parameters of things that they had 305 00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:38,549 thought of before yeah you can even 306 00:12:43,009 --> 00:12:39,990 point of things like they're in popular 307 00:12:45,319 --> 00:12:43,019 media there were stories about there was 308 00:12:46,970 --> 00:12:45,329 actually I think TV show where they 309 00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:46,980 shared a plane crashing I can't know if 310 00:12:50,299 --> 00:12:48,240 it was the World Trade Center but they 311 00:12:52,220 --> 00:12:50,309 did show you know something similar so 312 00:12:54,739 --> 00:12:52,230 obviously no people think about these 313 00:12:56,749 --> 00:12:54,749 things you know does it mean that the 314 00:13:00,590 --> 00:12:56,759 government actually had a an operational 315 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:00,600 plan for what to do if if planes were 316 00:13:02,090 --> 00:13:01,769 hijacked to go into the World Trade 317 00:13:04,369 --> 00:13:02,100 Center 318 00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:04,379 I mean clearly not the the goal back 319 00:13:09,470 --> 00:13:06,779 then when a plane was hijacked was to do 320 00:13:11,660 --> 00:13:09,480 what the hijacker says and you know 321 00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,670 getting them to land somewhere and then 322 00:13:15,439 --> 00:13:13,920 negotiate with them and that's always 323 00:13:18,049 --> 00:13:15,449 been what happened before and that's 324 00:13:19,970 --> 00:13:18,059 that's what allowed 9/11 to happen just 325 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:19,980 simply because there was no expect 326 00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,530 Asian certainly amongst the pilots and 327 00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:24,720 the the controllers the air traffic 328 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:28,230 controllers about people actually flying 329 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:30,810 planes into buildings yeah if they if 330 00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:32,250 they'd known that this was a tower thing 331 00:13:34,670 --> 00:13:33,660 they would have told the pilots they 332 00:13:35,930 --> 00:13:34,680 would have changed the policy they would 333 00:13:37,460 --> 00:13:35,940 have put locks on the doors they were 334 00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:37,470 done the Alba doors all the stuff they 335 00:13:44,110 --> 00:13:40,260 did after 9/11 whoops oh there was no 336 00:13:47,150 --> 00:13:44,120 there was no protocol to say shoot down 337 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:47,160 airplanes mostly heading towards the 338 00:13:51,620 --> 00:13:49,410 White House or Pentagon or DC in general 339 00:13:54,620 --> 00:13:51,630 yeah I think that the I don't know I 340 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:54,630 think they probably had protocols for 341 00:14:00,890 --> 00:13:56,250 planes coming from outside of US 342 00:14:02,570 --> 00:14:00,900 airspace and maybe from inside but yeah 343 00:14:03,830 --> 00:14:02,580 I don't I don't know what the protocol 344 00:14:06,260 --> 00:14:03,840 would have been obviously at any of 345 00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,270 things around White House White House 346 00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:08,880 security would be secrets right they 347 00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:11,190 wouldn't actually tell you exactly what 348 00:14:15,830 --> 00:14:14,220 the protocol was that it could well be 349 00:14:18,620 --> 00:14:15,840 that they were planning to shoot down 350 00:14:21,140 --> 00:14:18,630 the plane that was heading towards the 351 00:14:22,810 --> 00:14:21,150 White House at least the Pentagon he 352 00:14:25,580 --> 00:14:22,820 know the Pentagon of course was in a 353 00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:25,590 very difficult position to be to have 354 00:14:28,820 --> 00:14:27,630 shooting down planes because it's right 355 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:28,830 under the flight path of an airport 356 00:14:33,830 --> 00:14:30,330 those planes going up with it all the 357 00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:33,840 time and also planes tend to like wander 358 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:36,560 into restricted airspace all the time 359 00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:41,010 yes it's much more clamped down upon now 360 00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:43,830 but back then it wasn't it wasn't such a 361 00:14:46,370 --> 00:14:45,270 huge deal because you know people 362 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:46,380 weren't thinking about this type of 363 00:14:50,420 --> 00:14:48,290 thing you don't think about domestic 364 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:50,430 threat you think about threats coming 365 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:53,130 from outside so all of their focus was 366 00:14:57,020 --> 00:14:55,290 on you know things coming from Russia or 367 00:14:59,900 --> 00:14:57,030 things being flown over the border with 368 00:15:01,460 --> 00:14:59,910 drugs or America's lucky and that we've 369 00:15:03,230 --> 00:15:01,470 got these oceans on either side of us it 370 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:03,240 was actually pretty hard to get into it 371 00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:04,530 and I think that kind of gave us a bit 372 00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:06,750 of a false sense of security back there 373 00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:09,720 so I listened to your last podcast and 374 00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:11,550 what struck me out of pretty much 375 00:15:16,250 --> 00:15:13,350 everything that was said is you kind of 376 00:15:19,220 --> 00:15:16,260 in a way denied when the guy was talking 377 00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:19,230 about the buildings falling basically in 378 00:15:25,070 --> 00:15:22,110 the path of most resistance and also you 379 00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:25,080 denied and I'll let you obviously talk 380 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:26,880 about it I'm not trying to 381 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:28,110 strawman you 382 00:15:33,380 --> 00:15:30,330 but you kind of denied the firefighters 383 00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:33,390 claims of molten metal yeah yeah no and 384 00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:35,190 I think I gave quite a long explanation 385 00:15:40,580 --> 00:15:37,680 on both those things in the podcast but 386 00:15:42,950 --> 00:15:40,590 basically if the path of least 387 00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:42,960 resistance is a bit of a bit of a 388 00:15:49,790 --> 00:15:45,950 misnomer it's like if you think of 389 00:15:52,940 --> 00:15:49,800 dropping a rock into the ocean there's 390 00:15:54,650 --> 00:15:52,950 no resistance to it going up there 391 00:15:57,650 --> 00:15:54,660 there's some resistance to it going down 392 00:15:59,540 --> 00:15:57,660 why doesn't then go up you know there's 393 00:16:03,110 --> 00:15:59,550 the originally it sinks into the ocean 394 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:03,120 is that the force of gravity is greater 395 00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:05,010 than the buoyant force so even though 396 00:16:08,770 --> 00:16:06,600 there's zero resistance to be going up 397 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:08,780 or zero resistance to be going sideways 398 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:11,850 because there's a force pulling it down 399 00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:14,910 gravity very strong for us it it sinks 400 00:16:17,630 --> 00:16:16,320 through the ocean and essentially that's 401 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:17,640 what happens with the tops of the 402 00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:19,710 buildings you could kind of think of 403 00:16:23,270 --> 00:16:20,940 them as sinking it's not really a good 404 00:16:26,060 --> 00:16:23,280 analogy because they're not fluid but at 405 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:26,070 the top of the building fell through the 406 00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:27,090 bottom of the building because the 407 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:27,960 bottom of the building 408 00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:30,090 once the columns were no longer aligned 409 00:16:33,140 --> 00:16:31,350 and it was just a big falling mass 410 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:33,150 stripping the floors away from the 411 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:36,050 column when she got that situation the 412 00:16:40,130 --> 00:16:38,610 path of least resistance really is 413 00:16:42,050 --> 00:16:40,140 straight down when you add up the forces 414 00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:42,060 there's no force going sideways there's 415 00:16:45,890 --> 00:16:44,100 no force going upwards there's a big 416 00:16:47,930 --> 00:16:45,900 force of gravity going down and then 417 00:16:49,550 --> 00:16:47,940 there's a weaker force of the various 418 00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:49,560 components which are now misaligned 419 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:51,600 pushing back up so of course it's gonna 420 00:16:57,290 --> 00:16:52,770 fall down there's going to fall straight 421 00:17:00,260 --> 00:16:57,300 down I I mean that's very unintuitive 422 00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:00,270 and interestingly we don't we don't have 423 00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:03,600 many examples of this happening I don't 424 00:17:09,620 --> 00:17:06,000 think science stops for a day any day 425 00:17:12,260 --> 00:17:09,630 but we have we have very large 426 00:17:13,579 --> 00:17:12,270 demolition where all they do is they 427 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:13,589 take out one floor in the middle of the 428 00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:14,970 building and the top half of the 429 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:16,280 building falls through the bottom half 430 00:17:20,990 --> 00:17:18,930 yeah and they also have to they also 431 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:21,000 have to sever all of the core columns at 432 00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:23,850 precisely a specific time incorrectly 433 00:17:29,630 --> 00:17:27,600 terms they early yeah that they take one 434 00:17:32,930 --> 00:17:29,640 floor and they wrecked this one floor 435 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:32,940 with hydraulic jacks and then they use 436 00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:34,650 these hydraulic jacks to push the 437 00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,380 columns out of alignment so the top half 438 00:17:41,540 --> 00:17:39,840 of the building will fall down through 439 00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:41,550 the bottom half of the building and 440 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:43,080 to remove a lot of a stuff from below of 441 00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:44,730 the building like he obviously feel like 442 00:17:49,490 --> 00:17:46,640 removing asbestos and things like that 443 00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:49,500 but basically they just used the weight 444 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:51,300 of the building itself to collapse 445 00:17:55,820 --> 00:17:53,090 yourself because buildings are 446 00:17:58,520 --> 00:17:55,830 especially tall buildings are very very 447 00:18:01,100 --> 00:17:58,530 specific in their vertical strength and 448 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:01,110 most of the strength of a building is in 449 00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:02,610 the columns you look at the columns of 450 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:04,110 the World Trade Center that is enormous 451 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:06,330 thick things that have you ever been to 452 00:18:09,620 --> 00:18:08,490 the the 9/11 Memorial in New York where 453 00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,630 they have some of the bases of the 454 00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:11,520 columns and they look just insanely 455 00:18:18,260 --> 00:18:13,590 strong but then you got to think that 456 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:18,270 they have to support 1,300 feet of more 457 00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:23,130 column on top of that so that only works 458 00:18:27,890 --> 00:18:26,160 if you build it vertically if you think 459 00:18:29,870 --> 00:18:27,900 I feel the I feel that there's a 460 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:29,880 complete non sequitur in that you're 461 00:18:35,630 --> 00:18:32,360 talking about this taking out one floor 462 00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:35,640 it has absolutely really nothing we were 463 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:37,500 trying to make connections of things 464 00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:40,010 that have happened that are similar to 465 00:18:44,570 --> 00:18:42,870 9/11 and that is just a complete non 466 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:44,580 sequitur in my opinion but the fires 467 00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:46,490 were only ever a limited number of flaws 468 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:50,310 you look at them what actually would 469 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:52,530 have been collapsing at the time it 470 00:18:59,080 --> 00:18:55,410 wouldn't mean as neat as a very nice 471 00:19:02,350 --> 00:18:59,090 demolition but it would have been a a 472 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:02,360 floor or a few floors essentially that 473 00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:05,250 collapsed the columns would have not 474 00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:07,020 been strong enough and they would have 475 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:10,320 gone out of alignment and you know that 476 00:19:14,540 --> 00:19:12,330 would have been essentially the same 477 00:19:16,430 --> 00:19:14,550 thing it's the same physics behind it 478 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:16,440 although each building is different you 479 00:19:19,670 --> 00:19:17,490 really have to look at the actual 480 00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:19,680 mechanics of the World Trade Center I 481 00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:22,230 mean you're familiar with the the 482 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:23,580 construction of the World Trade Center 483 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:26,130 in the terms of the core and the floor 484 00:19:32,030 --> 00:19:28,530 panels and the outer wall there's a rena 485 00:19:34,370 --> 00:19:32,040 bena in the mesh yeah so you know that 486 00:19:37,070 --> 00:19:34,380 the the only thing that's connecting the 487 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:37,080 outer walls to the core are the floor 488 00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:39,930 panels there's no real you know big 489 00:19:44,570 --> 00:19:42,960 strong Gerdes structure in between 490 00:19:49,670 --> 00:19:44,580 there's no columns between the core and 491 00:19:51,740 --> 00:19:49,680 the outer walls so if those those floors 492 00:19:54,380 --> 00:19:51,750 not the core itself but the floors 493 00:19:55,860 --> 00:19:54,390 around the core if those are stripped 494 00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,870 away between the core 495 00:20:00,450 --> 00:19:58,240 and the outer walls then is obviously 496 00:20:01,350 --> 00:20:00,460 the outer walls are gonna collapse at 497 00:20:04,110 --> 00:20:01,360 that point because there's nothing 498 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:04,120 holding them up and the inner core 499 00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,770 itself becomes weakened because it 500 00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:07,360 doesn't have this lateral bracing from 501 00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:09,190 the outside you know the collapse is 502 00:20:15,419 --> 00:20:11,200 very complicated you you familiar with 503 00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:15,429 the thing called the spire I don't think 504 00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:17,830 so actually the spire is you've probably 505 00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:19,750 seen it but what happened was after the 506 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:23,710 I think this is more visible on building 507 00:20:28,529 --> 00:20:26,890 building what there which is the the 508 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:28,539 last one to collapse the one with a 509 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:31,330 antenna on top after building one 510 00:20:35,610 --> 00:20:32,890 collapsed and to a certain extent same 511 00:20:37,889 --> 00:20:35,620 with building to half of the core was 512 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:37,899 actually still standing when the rest of 513 00:20:43,649 --> 00:20:40,510 the building had hit the ground so you 514 00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,659 can see this this structure inside it's 515 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:45,039 kind of less chipped away at the top so 516 00:20:48,539 --> 00:20:46,570 it's kind of pointy shape so it looks a 517 00:20:50,279 --> 00:20:48,549 bit like a spire and you think of the 518 00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:50,289 spire on the Notre Dame Cathedral that 519 00:20:57,539 --> 00:20:53,919 fell a while back but literally half the 520 00:20:58,919 --> 00:20:57,549 building was still standing the Call 521 00:21:00,750 --> 00:20:58,929 list with half of the Corps was still 522 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:00,760 standing for about I think it was about 523 00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:04,210 five or six seconds after the exterior 524 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:05,440 of the building had hit the hit the 525 00:21:08,730 --> 00:21:07,450 ground you know people think of just the 526 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:08,740 top of the building falls all the way 527 00:21:11,610 --> 00:21:10,450 down and that's it it's collapsed but 528 00:21:15,389 --> 00:21:11,620 there's this very interesting thing with 529 00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,399 the spire which kind of proves that what 530 00:21:19,740 --> 00:21:17,679 was happening was the floors around the 531 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:19,750 core had been stripped away from that 532 00:21:25,169 --> 00:21:22,690 core and then that core collapsed you 533 00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:25,179 should check it out so I'm I know you're 534 00:21:29,750 --> 00:21:27,039 very familiar obviously with richard 535 00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:29,760 gage and the paper that they produce 536 00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:32,230 saying that there's these microspheres 537 00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:35,260 or this this nano-thermite residue 538 00:21:40,860 --> 00:21:38,220 basically so are you are you denying 539 00:21:44,340 --> 00:21:40,870 that paper are you denying all that 540 00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:44,350 they've done well I'm not denying that 541 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:46,270 paper exists I'm just saying that some 542 00:21:52,110 --> 00:21:49,690 of that conclusions are wrong with the 543 00:21:53,789 --> 00:21:52,120 iron microspheres they say that the only 544 00:21:56,419 --> 00:21:53,799 explanation for these iron microspheres 545 00:21:58,500 --> 00:21:56,429 is that there was nano thermite and 546 00:22:01,169 --> 00:21:58,510 they're going to and say like you know 547 00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:01,179 it's it's molten iron and so molten iron 548 00:22:06,450 --> 00:22:04,809 must have come from iron melting and 549 00:22:07,980 --> 00:22:06,460 fire can't do that thermic can do that 550 00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:07,990 therefore it must have been thermite 551 00:22:11,940 --> 00:22:10,240 but you know what I was simply pointing 552 00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:11,950 out is that there are all these other 553 00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:13,390 reasons where you can get iron 554 00:22:19,260 --> 00:22:16,320 microspheres if you ever do any welding 555 00:22:21,810 --> 00:22:19,270 yet you have making iron microspheres by 556 00:22:23,690 --> 00:22:21,820 the thousands every second and there was 557 00:22:25,590 --> 00:22:23,700 a awful amount of welding going on 558 00:22:27,810 --> 00:22:25,600 during the construction of the World 559 00:22:29,910 --> 00:22:27,820 Trade Center and a lot of that that 560 00:22:31,380 --> 00:22:29,920 welding dust which is entirely iron 561 00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:31,390 microspheres would have remained in the 562 00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:33,520 building and when it's tucked away from 563 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:35,070 the elements it doesn't actually rust 564 00:22:38,610 --> 00:22:37,450 and there's the whole bunch of other 565 00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:38,620 stuff during the cleanup there was 566 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:42,400 cutting going on the fires themselves 567 00:22:47,130 --> 00:22:43,510 would have made iron microspheres 568 00:22:49,170 --> 00:22:47,140 because when fire burns rusty steel the 569 00:22:52,740 --> 00:22:49,180 the rust flakes and the iron plates I 570 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:52,750 get consumed in the same way that's what 571 00:22:57,540 --> 00:22:55,570 does it steel wall steel wall burns if 572 00:22:59,340 --> 00:22:57,550 you if you put a match to it doesn't 573 00:23:00,840 --> 00:22:59,350 require a very high temperature and it 574 00:23:02,490 --> 00:23:00,850 sparks and makes all these iron 575 00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:02,500 microspheres and there's a bunch of 576 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:04,720 other ways as well but basically there 577 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:06,370 are all these ways you can make iron 578 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:08,290 microspheres and yet architects and 579 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:11,110 engineers for 9/11 truth and the lawyers 580 00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:13,210 Committee for 9/11 truth are saying this 581 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:14,830 is the only way it could be it could 582 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:17,410 only be from nano thermite and that's 583 00:23:22,260 --> 00:23:19,810 just just flat wrong so didn't they 584 00:23:24,750 --> 00:23:22,270 actually have actual chips that they 585 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:24,760 ignited they had some chips yet but the 586 00:23:29,340 --> 00:23:27,130 thing was these chips red and gray chips 587 00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:29,350 that they found I found some chips that 588 00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:31,510 look look exactly the same 589 00:23:36,420 --> 00:23:34,150 and I burnt them and they made iron 590 00:23:38,010 --> 00:23:36,430 microspheres I found these chips on my 591 00:23:40,770 --> 00:23:38,020 wheelbarrow I have a wheelbarrow that 592 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:40,780 has a red coating which i think is 593 00:23:44,550 --> 00:23:42,610 probably similar to the the primer 594 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:44,560 coating red primer paint that they use 595 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:47,290 on the World Trade Center the the 596 00:23:52,350 --> 00:23:49,510 trusses themselves were painted in red 597 00:23:55,410 --> 00:23:52,360 paint and as they fell and they burnt in 598 00:23:57,450 --> 00:23:55,420 the collapse and they all this paint 599 00:23:59,910 --> 00:23:57,460 flaked off basically and so you have 600 00:24:02,250 --> 00:23:59,920 thousands of flakes of this paint and if 601 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:02,260 you look at it it looks exactly the same 602 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:04,570 as my chips it's red on one side which 603 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:06,250 is the paint is gray on the other side 604 00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:09,130 which is iron oxide which is the 605 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:11,110 basically the surface of the steel that 606 00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,170 is flaked off of and it's it's flammable 607 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:16,240 and I've burnt it and I made iron 608 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:18,970 microspheres so basically replicate 609 00:24:21,629 --> 00:24:20,530 exactly the same thing now they've got a 610 00:24:24,299 --> 00:24:21,639 quibble about the exact 611 00:24:25,699 --> 00:24:24,309 chemical makeup of the paint and things 612 00:24:27,869 --> 00:24:25,709 like that but if you look at their own 613 00:24:30,479 --> 00:24:27,879 experiments that they do they find all 614 00:24:31,979 --> 00:24:30,489 kinds of different red chips some of 615 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:31,989 which are consistent with some of the 616 00:24:35,629 --> 00:24:34,570 primer paint some of which are not but 617 00:24:38,399 --> 00:24:35,639 could have come from a different 618 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:38,409 different paint source but basically it 619 00:24:42,529 --> 00:24:40,450 looks exactly like paint chips you know 620 00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:42,539 it really exactly like paint chips and 621 00:24:45,509 --> 00:24:44,769 the composition of it isn't really 622 00:24:47,699 --> 00:24:45,519 nano-thermite 623 00:24:51,089 --> 00:24:47,709 they have iron oxide on one side which 624 00:24:52,289 --> 00:24:51,099 is basically inert if you unless you mix 625 00:24:53,940 --> 00:24:52,299 it with something and in this case it's 626 00:24:56,459 --> 00:24:53,950 not mixed with something on the other 627 00:24:59,759 --> 00:24:56,469 side what they had was essentially an 628 00:25:02,909 --> 00:24:59,769 organic binder with some flakes of stuff 629 00:25:05,690 --> 00:25:02,919 in it and the organic organic binder is 630 00:25:09,690 --> 00:25:05,700 kind of like an epoxy type thing or a 631 00:25:13,049 --> 00:25:09,700 hydrocarbon basically so what happened 632 00:25:15,589 --> 00:25:13,059 was they stick it in this differential 633 00:25:18,029 --> 00:25:15,599 scanning calorimeter whatever it was and 634 00:25:20,699 --> 00:25:18,039 heated it up until it ignited and then 635 00:25:25,319 --> 00:25:20,709 it burnt and what's burning there is the 636 00:25:27,299 --> 00:25:25,329 epoxy the paint the well I'm pretty I'm 637 00:25:29,869 --> 00:25:27,309 gonna say that that's probably the best 638 00:25:32,969 --> 00:25:29,879 explanation and and I guess a lot of 639 00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:32,979 this word conspiracy theorists you know 640 00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:35,200 I might believe that we weren't told the 641 00:25:39,569 --> 00:25:37,089 official story or the official stories 642 00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:39,579 and actually correct so a lot of times I 643 00:25:43,289 --> 00:25:41,289 feel like I'm painted in with flat 644 00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:43,299 earthers or people that doing trans 645 00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:45,609 vestigation z' and this is this is in my 646 00:25:50,339 --> 00:25:47,919 opinion something that some kind of a PR 647 00:25:52,469 --> 00:25:50,349 group or a think tank has done to where 648 00:25:54,959 --> 00:25:52,479 all of these mainstream media articles 649 00:25:56,399 --> 00:25:54,969 they'll talk about flat earth right 650 00:25:58,349 --> 00:25:56,409 below it they'll talk about you know 651 00:26:00,719 --> 00:25:58,359 anti-vaxxers they'll talk about flatter 652 00:26:04,049 --> 00:26:00,729 they'll throw in the throw in ridiculous 653 00:26:06,779 --> 00:26:04,059 conspiracy theories to basically try to 654 00:26:08,969 --> 00:26:06,789 tar us all you know yes with the same 655 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:08,979 brush and I feel that you know it 656 00:26:13,529 --> 00:26:10,690 actually gets into the kind of the 657 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:13,539 public's of subconscious of going around 658 00:26:17,729 --> 00:26:15,369 and hey I have a different idea about 659 00:26:19,229 --> 00:26:17,739 this than what we're being told oh what 660 00:26:21,180 --> 00:26:19,239 do you a flat earther so I feel that 661 00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:21,190 that it's kind of a smear of a campaign 662 00:26:25,349 --> 00:26:23,440 yeah I could set it see how you would 663 00:26:28,949 --> 00:26:25,359 think that and it certainly is a problem 664 00:26:31,529 --> 00:26:28,959 and yeah I say this all the time in my 665 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:31,539 book I talk about what I called the 666 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:34,690 demarcation line everyone has some kind 667 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:35,290 of line 668 00:26:39,630 --> 00:26:36,850 where they think things on one side of 669 00:26:41,490 --> 00:26:39,640 it are just silly conspiracy theories 670 00:26:44,370 --> 00:26:41,500 and they think everything on the other 671 00:26:47,790 --> 00:26:44,380 side of it is actually sensible yet 672 00:26:49,470 --> 00:26:47,800 conspiracies conspiracy theories and we 673 00:26:53,220 --> 00:26:49,480 all draw a lines at different places and 674 00:26:54,930 --> 00:26:53,230 everybody's kind of obsessed with not 675 00:26:56,250 --> 00:26:54,940 getting taught by the same brush did 676 00:26:58,380 --> 00:26:56,260 they think that things just on the other 677 00:27:01,770 --> 00:26:58,390 side of their line are silly like you 678 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:01,780 know David Chandler there was a kind of 679 00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:03,790 investigator is a former high school 680 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:05,200 physics teacher a math teacher 681 00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:08,530 I've heard of him here he right now is 682 00:27:13,380 --> 00:27:10,060 really obsessed with proving that a 683 00:27:16,110 --> 00:27:13,390 plane hit the Pentagon and yet he's also 684 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:16,120 a hardcore believer in the controlled 685 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:19,690 demolition theory so he is very upset 686 00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:23,110 that what he views as nonsense this 687 00:27:31,050 --> 00:27:27,460 plane hitting the Pentagon is being you 688 00:27:32,970 --> 00:27:31,060 know misidentified with his position 689 00:27:35,850 --> 00:27:32,980 which he sees as very sensible position 690 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:35,860 that simply that the towers were pre 691 00:27:40,110 --> 00:27:38,530 rigged with explosives of secret nano 692 00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:40,120 thermite and the planes were flown in by 693 00:27:44,550 --> 00:27:43,120 remote control so he doesn't yeah he 694 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:44,560 doesn't like being taught by the same 695 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:46,450 brush and I also I once went to a 696 00:27:51,210 --> 00:27:49,690 conference for chemtrails and there was 697 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:51,220 a bunch of people there who were talking 698 00:27:56,790 --> 00:27:53,650 about talking with aliens from another 699 00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:56,800 dimension for some reason there was a 700 00:28:00,810 --> 00:27:58,960 crossover conference and the chemtrails 701 00:28:01,980 --> 00:28:00,820 people were really angry that these 702 00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:01,990 people had been allowed into the 703 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:04,510 conference so I think it's a natural 704 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:06,370 reaction but I don't think it's 705 00:28:12,270 --> 00:28:10,210 necessarily deliberate you know I think 706 00:28:13,470 --> 00:28:12,280 you obviously there is some people who 707 00:28:14,850 --> 00:28:13,480 will dismiss you because you were a 708 00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:14,860 conspiracy theorists and they're 709 00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:16,300 thinking of all kinds of conspiracy 710 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:18,070 theories they're not looking at your 711 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:20,050 specific one but I think it's just 712 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:20,890 something that comes with the territory 713 00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:23,170 just because there are ridiculous 714 00:28:29,940 --> 00:28:26,470 conspiracy theories people not even on 715 00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:29,950 you 11 even on 9/11 it's like really the 716 00:28:34,830 --> 00:28:32,110 objective should be that hey in my 717 00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:34,840 opinion at least that what we're being 718 00:28:39,870 --> 00:28:36,700 told doesn't seem to match up there's 719 00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:39,880 there's tons of cui bono who benefits in 720 00:28:43,770 --> 00:28:41,440 this whole thing 721 00:28:45,870 --> 00:28:43,780 then we have people all of a sudden from 722 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:45,880 clues forum and all these places saying 723 00:28:50,490 --> 00:28:47,890 that there's no planes or dr. Judy would 724 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:50,500 saying that there's elite space weapons 725 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:53,410 and and all this stuff and so yeah it 726 00:28:58,050 --> 00:28:55,930 seems like even in the flat earth like 727 00:29:00,090 --> 00:28:58,060 I've been obviously had a head of film 728 00:29:01,950 --> 00:29:00,100 pulse on the Flat Earth for a long time 729 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:01,960 and it seems like these things kind of 730 00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:04,090 come and go and whatever sticks did 731 00:29:08,550 --> 00:29:06,340 people that believed it will continue to 732 00:29:09,690 --> 00:29:08,560 perpetrate it so things like I don't 733 00:29:12,030 --> 00:29:09,700 know if you ever heard about it but no 734 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:12,040 forest on a flat earth that was picked 735 00:29:17,070 --> 00:29:14,530 up and then dropped really quickly 736 00:29:19,950 --> 00:29:17,080 because it was so dumb I think and so 737 00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:19,960 it's just it's gone right but then 738 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:22,270 there's other theories that come in and 739 00:29:27,210 --> 00:29:25,450 whatever sticks for some reason it seems 740 00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:27,220 like you all you need to do is give a 741 00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:29,680 person an idea the right person an idea 742 00:29:33,630 --> 00:29:32,110 and if they have a following or where 743 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:33,640 they're able to get it to another person 744 00:29:39,660 --> 00:29:35,770 that has a following the the 745 00:29:41,850 --> 00:29:39,670 perpetration is just ramp it like you 746 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:41,860 can't stop it have you heard of the the 747 00:29:45,630 --> 00:29:44,290 mud flood theory oh yeah I was just 748 00:29:47,910 --> 00:29:45,640 talking about that before I called you 749 00:29:50,250 --> 00:29:47,920 yeah yeah cuz that's uh that's kind of 750 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:50,260 you know similar to no forests on flat 751 00:29:53,490 --> 00:29:51,970 earth in terms of its kind of 752 00:29:55,290 --> 00:29:53,500 ridiculousness okay what do you think 753 00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,300 about the theory and what do you think 754 00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:57,760 you think it's this type of deliberate 755 00:30:03,810 --> 00:30:00,880 disinformation or yeah yeah I think it's 756 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:03,820 for sure deliberate one of those in my 757 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:05,530 opinion probably a PR company or 758 00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:09,760 something tank that has some ideas and 759 00:30:13,730 --> 00:30:11,110 they'll give just a little bit of 760 00:30:16,110 --> 00:30:13,740 information and there's people that 761 00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:16,120 there's this UK guy I was talking about 762 00:30:20,580 --> 00:30:18,670 that is obsessed with it and he's got 763 00:30:24,210 --> 00:30:20,590 like nine hundred people watching his 764 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:24,220 live live YouTube channel where he's 765 00:30:27,660 --> 00:30:26,170 just looking at pictures and some of 766 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:27,670 them are known to be fake like that 767 00:30:31,410 --> 00:30:29,410 giant you've probably seen the Asian 768 00:30:33,090 --> 00:30:31,420 giant or whatever that was just in a it 769 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:33,100 was an intro into some movie or 770 00:30:37,890 --> 00:30:34,450 something that they're they're picking 771 00:30:40,740 --> 00:30:37,900 up on and so yeah I mean really I've 772 00:30:43,380 --> 00:30:40,750 actually removed myself from for the 773 00:30:45,810 --> 00:30:43,390 most part this crowd because the people 774 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:45,820 aren't objective like there's no cui 775 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:47,890 bono who benefits for the earth being 776 00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:49,050 flat 777 00:30:53,630 --> 00:30:51,840 the mud tarred thing in my opinion 778 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:53,640 doesn't go anywhere there's no objective 779 00:30:59,180 --> 00:30:56,490 to it as far as these trillion-dollar 780 00:31:00,650 --> 00:30:59,190 wars that we're doing over you know on 781 00:31:02,470 --> 00:31:00,660 the other side of the world I think 782 00:31:06,350 --> 00:31:02,480 these are much more important because 783 00:31:08,150 --> 00:31:06,360 actual American soldiers actually go 784 00:31:11,390 --> 00:31:08,160 there to die and if it's for a false 785 00:31:13,630 --> 00:31:11,400 premise it's it's really messed up and 786 00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,640 there's there's been things like 787 00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:15,600 Operation Northwoods that I'm sure 788 00:31:21,890 --> 00:31:18,480 you're familiar with where it's 789 00:31:23,420 --> 00:31:21,900 basically outlining false flags that 790 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:23,430 they could do to get into war with Cuba 791 00:31:27,710 --> 00:31:24,930 and this isn't the first thing I mean 792 00:31:30,650 --> 00:31:27,720 Gulf of Tonkin incident and others are 793 00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,660 we were not told the correct information 794 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:32,880 and a lot of times it seems as though 795 00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:34,050 they're trying to get the public 796 00:31:40,340 --> 00:31:37,140 perception to go hoorah America to go to 797 00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:40,350 war for false pretences yeah definitely 798 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:42,960 I think I write about both of those 799 00:31:46,970 --> 00:31:45,690 North Woods and Tonkin in my book and I 800 00:31:49,940 --> 00:31:46,980 looked into talking quite look it's very 801 00:31:54,890 --> 00:31:49,950 interesting it doesn't seem like it was 802 00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:54,900 a planned thing it was Robert McNamara 803 00:31:59,960 --> 00:31:57,720 with Secretary of Secretary of Secretary 804 00:32:03,170 --> 00:31:59,970 of Defense back then and he was actually 805 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:03,180 looking for an excuse to attack North 806 00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:05,610 North Vietnam because he wanted to 807 00:32:11,900 --> 00:32:08,700 destroy their industrial capacity and 808 00:32:13,970 --> 00:32:11,910 there was this this incident with the 809 00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:13,980 ship thinking it would being attacked by 810 00:32:18,590 --> 00:32:17,220 torpedo boats and they basically they 811 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:18,600 called in and said you know we're under 812 00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:22,170 attack and McNamara said to Johnson that 813 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:25,350 we need to attack and then they they 814 00:32:28,820 --> 00:32:27,450 later say oh wait we don't think it was 815 00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,830 he we think it just like a faulty radar 816 00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:30,720 returned and they had the records of 817 00:32:35,030 --> 00:32:32,340 them actually doing this but McNamara 818 00:32:36,620 --> 00:32:35,040 just didn't tell Johnson about this he 819 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:36,630 kind of with held that information and 820 00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:38,610 didn't didn't move forward so it's kind 821 00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:40,470 of like yeah factions within the 822 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:42,480 government were fighting against each 823 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:42,810 other 824 00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:45,090 Johnson didn't really want to get into 825 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:47,790 it as much as McNamara did McNamara knew 826 00:32:53,420 --> 00:32:50,610 this and so he had to kind of in a way 827 00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:53,430 lie to Johnson to get him to actually 828 00:32:57,140 --> 00:32:55,440 attack North Vietnam and once they did 829 00:32:58,640 --> 00:32:57,150 the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and they 830 00:33:01,130 --> 00:32:58,650 did a bombing run then basically they 831 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:01,140 were all in and it was irrelevant but 832 00:33:04,790 --> 00:33:02,530 the truth came out on that one event 833 00:33:07,740 --> 00:33:04,800 there was quite detailed records of the 834 00:33:09,630 --> 00:33:07,750 the intersections of communications and 835 00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:09,640 the mistranslations and the faulty 836 00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:11,380 returns and there wasn't actually 837 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:14,560 anything going on on that second second 838 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:18,490 attack second day at the Gulf of Guinea 839 00:33:23,250 --> 00:33:21,370 it was misrepresented greatly to the 840 00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:23,260 American public answer to Johnson the 841 00:33:27,660 --> 00:33:25,510 president's at another time and this is 842 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:27,670 why you have to understand at a certain 843 00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:30,010 point that as far as the conspiracy 844 00:33:33,420 --> 00:33:31,750 minded people we have been 845 00:33:35,670 --> 00:33:33,430 disenfranchised because a lot of times 846 00:33:37,860 --> 00:33:35,680 we do research and if these things like 847 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:37,870 you know the pretext or one of the 848 00:33:42,780 --> 00:33:39,930 pretext for the Gulf War was that 849 00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:42,790 fifteen-year-old nyira testifying about 850 00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:44,950 babies and incubators when she was 851 00:33:49,710 --> 00:33:46,350 actually the daughter of the Kuwaiti 852 00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:49,720 ambassador and it was set up by a PR 853 00:33:54,330 --> 00:33:51,790 company Hill & Knowlton employed by 854 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:54,340 citizens for free Kuwait yeah so a lot 855 00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:57,250 of the a lot of these things are to get 856 00:34:03,960 --> 00:33:59,200 into the minds of Americans like I said 857 00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:03,970 and so you know 9/11 is like the 858 00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:08,350 ultimate you know the ultimate way to go 859 00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:10,990 to war with the Middle East and forget 860 00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:14,590 that generals name but he said how no 861 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:16,030 the general that said that basically 862 00:34:23,820 --> 00:34:18,250 they had a plan for like seven different 863 00:34:26,669 --> 00:34:23,830 ideas Wesley Clark oh yeah yeah so 864 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:26,679 there's a lot of these examples of hey 865 00:34:32,879 --> 00:34:29,530 we have a mission and what we have to do 866 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:32,889 is basically get the American people 867 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:34,770 kind of like P knack we need a 868 00:34:38,580 --> 00:34:37,450 catalyzing event such as Pearl Harbor 869 00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:38,590 you go Hank 870 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:43,540 yeah and you're saying and to a large 871 00:34:49,230 --> 00:34:47,050 extent I agree with you know what 872 00:34:52,139 --> 00:34:49,240 happened in this 9/11 was definitely 873 00:34:55,020 --> 00:34:52,149 used as an excuse to invade you know 874 00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:55,030 they invaded Iraq which had the routers 875 00:34:59,760 --> 00:34:58,570 only nothing to do with 9/11 but the 876 00:35:01,170 --> 00:34:59,770 American public were fine with that 877 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:01,180 because they just you know they see the 878 00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:02,530 whole of the Middle East as being this 879 00:35:07,650 --> 00:35:05,950 one one broad thing but I don't think 880 00:35:11,370 --> 00:35:07,660 that necessarily means that the American 881 00:35:13,530 --> 00:35:11,380 government did 9/11 well it means that 882 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:13,540 they definitely it's they benefited from 883 00:35:16,650 --> 00:35:14,650 it so 884 00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:16,660 yeah they benefited from it and at a 885 00:35:24,359 --> 00:35:21,220 certain point you know Osama bin Laden 886 00:35:27,359 --> 00:35:24,369 obviously helped with the Mujahideen and 887 00:35:32,370 --> 00:35:27,369 I think his CIA or FBI with the USSR 888 00:35:34,529 --> 00:35:32,380 long ago and obviously that whole I 889 00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:34,539 think was it not been to our Bush but 890 00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:38,079 the he had a large extended family and 891 00:35:44,670 --> 00:35:40,420 the family seemed to be friends with 892 00:35:47,849 --> 00:35:44,680 Bush and I think even one of his 893 00:35:49,950 --> 00:35:47,859 brothers died in a weird plane accident 894 00:35:54,450 --> 00:35:49,960 in Texas or something I forget it's been 895 00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:54,460 a long time but there it's kind of naive 896 00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:58,000 almost too free in my opinion for you to 897 00:36:01,289 --> 00:35:59,200 be able to see all these things that 898 00:36:03,029 --> 00:36:01,299 they've done in the past and kind of be 899 00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:03,039 like well nothing to see here on 9/11 900 00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:05,920 and you know these theories about the 901 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:07,839 buildings falling in way that they did 902 00:36:10,980 --> 00:36:09,970 and I just it's hard for me to believe 903 00:36:12,809 --> 00:36:10,990 no I 904 00:36:17,010 --> 00:36:12,819 hey what you saying but you know I did 905 00:36:21,450 --> 00:36:17,020 look into these a lot into North Woods 906 00:36:24,809 --> 00:36:21,460 and the Gulf of Tonkin North Woods was a 907 00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:24,819 proposal document that was floated 908 00:36:32,819 --> 00:36:27,670 around by the Chiefs of Staff about 909 00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:32,829 trying to get pretext to invade Cuba but 910 00:36:39,359 --> 00:36:36,400 I don't really see the parallels in 911 00:36:42,809 --> 00:36:39,369 scale between what was proposed back 912 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:42,819 then and 9/11 you know the idea that you 913 00:36:48,029 --> 00:36:45,730 would need something like destroying the 914 00:36:50,099 --> 00:36:48,039 World Trade Center in order to justify 915 00:36:52,170 --> 00:36:50,109 invading Iraq they could have just like 916 00:36:53,789 --> 00:36:52,180 you know let it bomb off in the the US 917 00:36:56,130 --> 00:36:53,799 Embassy and not killed anybody or like 918 00:36:57,390 --> 00:36:56,140 havesome some chemical weapons 919 00:36:59,569 --> 00:36:57,400 discovered somewhere or faked some 920 00:37:02,279 --> 00:36:59,579 satellite photographs he doesn't know 921 00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:02,289 how about the 1993 I believe it was 922 00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:05,160 bombings of the World Trade Center 923 00:37:09,029 --> 00:37:07,750 have you ever research into that where 924 00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:09,039 the guy actually comes out and said that 925 00:37:12,569 --> 00:37:11,230 he was FBI informant he recorded their 926 00:37:14,849 --> 00:37:12,579 phone call yeah I haven't looked in 927 00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:14,859 great detail but I've heard of that but 928 00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:17,710 I don't think it was yeah specifically 929 00:37:23,789 --> 00:37:22,480 very strong evidence cuz you know why we 930 00:37:25,839 --> 00:37:23,799 believe in this guy he could be just 931 00:37:28,569 --> 00:37:25,849 saying there's for some other reason 932 00:37:30,459 --> 00:37:28,579 yes we ordered the phone calls is what 933 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:30,469 I'm saying do you have the recordings of 934 00:37:35,170 --> 00:37:33,170 the phone calls not me personally right 935 00:37:37,930 --> 00:37:35,180 now no this is this been quite a while 936 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:37,940 yeah no I I don't I think you know that 937 00:37:43,299 --> 00:37:39,650 again is probably what it appears to be 938 00:37:45,370 --> 00:37:43,309 like she had his terrorists fighting 939 00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:45,380 what they view is the Great Satan they 940 00:37:49,209 --> 00:37:46,640 don't like America because of its 941 00:37:51,489 --> 00:37:49,219 involvement in the Middle East we know 942 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:51,499 this to a certain extent don't you agree 943 00:37:56,259 --> 00:37:53,690 with them though I mean you know if you 944 00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:56,269 were on the other side of the I do agree 945 00:38:00,670 --> 00:37:57,890 I'm not so sure 946 00:38:03,819 --> 00:38:00,680 yeah I'm not on the side of Isis however 947 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:03,829 I think that America's imperialism has 948 00:38:07,839 --> 00:38:05,210 historically been overreaching and 949 00:38:10,479 --> 00:38:07,849 America has been involved in in 950 00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:10,489 nation-building and in overthrowing 951 00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:12,529 governments you know this is something 952 00:38:16,709 --> 00:38:14,569 that's well-known that the CIA has been 953 00:38:19,299 --> 00:38:16,719 involved in overthrowing governments and 954 00:38:21,459 --> 00:38:19,309 yeah they're they're involved in foreign 955 00:38:24,099 --> 00:38:21,469 propaganda to a large extent trying to 956 00:38:27,009 --> 00:38:24,109 influence things like borrowing 957 00:38:29,890 --> 00:38:27,019 elections look at what's going on in 958 00:38:32,499 --> 00:38:29,900 Venezuela right now there's obviously 959 00:38:34,509 --> 00:38:32,509 people maneuvering in the United States 960 00:38:36,339 --> 00:38:34,519 government because they want a specific 961 00:38:38,819 --> 00:38:36,349 outcome so you know they're meddling in 962 00:38:41,410 --> 00:38:38,829 other countries elections essentially 963 00:38:43,479 --> 00:38:41,420 not that I'm not that I'm supporting one 964 00:38:45,969 --> 00:38:43,489 side or the other and in Venezuela but 965 00:38:47,529 --> 00:38:45,979 you know just looking at it yeah it's 966 00:38:49,709 --> 00:38:47,539 historically the type of thing the US 967 00:38:52,450 --> 00:38:49,719 has done especially in South America 968 00:38:54,670 --> 00:38:52,460 there's the the the policy was at the 969 00:38:57,130 --> 00:38:54,680 Monroe Doctrine which is basically 970 00:38:58,539 --> 00:38:57,140 saying South America is ours you're you 971 00:38:59,890 --> 00:38:58,549 guys all keep-out we're the ones who are 972 00:39:03,880 --> 00:38:59,900 going to control everything the cosine 973 00:39:05,859 --> 00:39:03,890 in South America so yeah I'm not a fan 974 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:05,869 of America's foreign policy I think it's 975 00:39:12,130 --> 00:39:09,890 too imperialist and it's too 976 00:39:15,539 --> 00:39:12,140 interventionist and we need to work more 977 00:39:17,529 --> 00:39:15,549 as a global community rather than 978 00:39:20,829 --> 00:39:17,539 America being the world's police and 979 00:39:21,999 --> 00:39:20,839 trying to exploit the world yeah well we 980 00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:22,009 have things like operation Mockingbird 981 00:39:26,019 --> 00:39:24,079 I'm sure you've heard from the 50s and 982 00:39:29,019 --> 00:39:26,029 70s and I would argue probably still 983 00:39:31,420 --> 00:39:29,029 going on CIA paid domestic and foreign 984 00:39:32,589 --> 00:39:31,430 journalists to publish CIA propaganda we 985 00:39:35,289 --> 00:39:32,599 have things like operation Ajax 986 00:39:37,570 --> 00:39:35,299 operation Snow White operation Gladio 987 00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:37,580 Operation Paperclip so there 988 00:39:43,930 --> 00:39:40,160 there's been documented even by them 989 00:39:46,330 --> 00:39:43,940 obviously clandestine operations that 990 00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:46,340 continue to happen and a lot of them 991 00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:49,730 have been to get us to war so is there a 992 00:39:55,810 --> 00:39:52,400 possibility that you are afraid of the 993 00:39:59,560 --> 00:39:55,820 implications that 9/11 could have had 994 00:40:00,580 --> 00:39:59,570 elements of the government involved no 995 00:40:03,550 --> 00:40:00,590 not at all 996 00:40:05,470 --> 00:40:03,560 I'm just don't I don't see what I focus 997 00:40:07,180 --> 00:40:05,480 on are the collapses of the buildings 998 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:07,190 and whether there was a controlled 999 00:40:13,180 --> 00:40:10,010 demolition involved I think it's it's 1000 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:13,190 there is an outside possibility the the 1001 00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:16,970 hijackers could have been influenced by 1002 00:40:20,350 --> 00:40:18,710 somebody from America 1003 00:40:22,030 --> 00:40:20,360 I don't know that Israel is someone in 1004 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:22,040 power but it could be this you know this 1005 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:24,290 is you know something that's I wouldn't 1006 00:40:29,610 --> 00:40:26,570 completely discount the possibility it's 1007 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:29,620 also possible that the US government 1008 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:32,090 downplayed the threats that they have 1009 00:40:36,190 --> 00:40:33,410 been receiving because they actually 1010 00:40:37,630 --> 00:40:36,200 some people wanted there to be an attack 1011 00:40:38,830 --> 00:40:37,640 they didn't realize how big it was going 1012 00:40:40,180 --> 00:40:38,840 to be but they wanted there to be an 1013 00:40:41,710 --> 00:40:40,190 attack so they could use this as an 1014 00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:41,720 excuse so there are certainly 1015 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:43,910 possibilities that I wouldn't discount 1016 00:40:47,830 --> 00:40:46,130 and I try never to really discount every 1017 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:47,840 single possibility but when it comes to 1018 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:50,690 things like the demolition of the twin 1019 00:40:54,910 --> 00:40:53,930 towers not only is that completely 1020 00:40:57,010 --> 00:40:54,920 implausible 1021 00:40:59,590 --> 00:40:57,020 it doesn't seem necessary and there's no 1022 00:41:02,110 --> 00:40:59,600 evidence to support it happening so you 1023 00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,120 know that really I have to kind of just 1024 00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:04,640 base based on purely on the evidence 1025 00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:07,100 itself what we see yeah I find it 1026 00:41:12,820 --> 00:41:10,430 implausible that and this is where a lot 1027 00:41:14,650 --> 00:41:12,830 of conspiracy people get it wrong is 1028 00:41:16,810 --> 00:41:14,660 that they they try to say that there's 1029 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:16,820 never been a building that has collapsed 1030 00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:18,890 due to office fires alone and it's like 1031 00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,510 no actually dude there's a huge there's 1032 00:41:25,420 --> 00:41:22,400 a plane that just hit it obviously yeah 1033 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:25,430 so there's a huge other factor in that 1034 00:41:29,770 --> 00:41:27,650 but I find it implausible that these 1035 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:29,780 buildings fall and count my words here 1036 00:41:35,530 --> 00:41:32,690 virtually at freefall speed mostly 1037 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:35,540 building seven when it was just hit or 1038 00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:37,490 it had you know diesel fires or whatever 1039 00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:40,640 the excuse is nowadays I find it highly 1040 00:41:46,180 --> 00:41:42,800 implausible that what 38 steel columns 1041 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:46,190 virtually collapsed at the same time for 1042 00:41:49,690 --> 00:41:47,210 that to happen 1043 00:41:50,829 --> 00:41:49,700 and and fall in its footprint yeah and I 1044 00:41:53,049 --> 00:41:50,839 understand that but lots of people do 1045 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:53,059 find it implausible but you know most 1046 00:41:58,020 --> 00:41:55,250 people don't have very much experience 1047 00:42:00,460 --> 00:41:58,030 with the collapses of large buildings 1048 00:42:02,049 --> 00:42:00,470 how many internal structures of 1049 00:42:05,620 --> 00:42:02,059 buildings have you actually studied that 1050 00:42:07,930 --> 00:42:05,630 have been through like similar damage to 1051 00:42:10,540 --> 00:42:07,940 even World Trade Center seven well this 1052 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:10,550 is where I defer to people actually that 1053 00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:13,490 are putting their credentials on the 1054 00:42:17,890 --> 00:42:15,200 line such as Richard gage in the 1055 00:42:20,770 --> 00:42:17,900 thousand plus others architects and 1056 00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:20,780 engineers that even me and you were were 1057 00:42:25,359 --> 00:42:23,089 comparatively probably laymen compared 1058 00:42:28,390 --> 00:42:25,369 to these people that actually do this in 1059 00:42:30,460 --> 00:42:28,400 the field so I am kind but then you see 1060 00:42:32,410 --> 00:42:30,470 making all these ridiculous mistakes and 1061 00:42:34,329 --> 00:42:32,420 not correcting that mistakes like 1062 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:34,339 Richard gage head of the architects and 1063 00:42:38,079 --> 00:42:36,170 engineers from 9/11 truth 1064 00:42:40,589 --> 00:42:38,089 he's been rabbiting on about this one 1065 00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:40,599 column that he says was cut at an angle 1066 00:42:45,549 --> 00:42:43,430 and that somehow is evidence of 1067 00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:45,559 controlled demolition and he's got this 1068 00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:47,119 photograph of this this column that was 1069 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:48,710 cut at an angle and some firemen stood 1070 00:42:52,660 --> 00:42:49,970 in front of it and he says oh this this 1071 00:42:55,180 --> 00:42:52,670 proves that it was in like the few days 1072 00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:55,190 after the collapse because this fireman 1073 00:43:00,160 --> 00:42:58,130 in the photo and yet the firemen were on 1074 00:43:01,569 --> 00:43:00,170 the scene for like nearly a year 1075 00:43:03,339 --> 00:43:01,579 afterwards because they were constantly 1076 00:43:05,109 --> 00:43:03,349 recovering human remains from the site 1077 00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:05,119 so firemen were there all the time 1078 00:43:09,579 --> 00:43:07,030 and not only that I actually found 1079 00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:09,589 photos of that column from six weeks 1080 00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:13,280 after where it was still standing he'd 1081 00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:16,160 hadn't been cut and I found a photo from 1082 00:43:19,839 --> 00:43:17,569 the same day where it had been cut so I 1083 00:43:22,359 --> 00:43:19,849 found the actual day on which it was cut 1084 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:22,369 and yet Richard gage has been using this 1085 00:43:26,589 --> 00:43:25,130 as evidence like and quite compelling 1086 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:26,599 evidence for a lot of people because 1087 00:43:29,819 --> 00:43:27,890 he's you know got his weight of 1088 00:43:36,339 --> 00:43:29,829 authority behind it they can architect 1089 00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:36,349 for like over a decade yeah when I first 1090 00:43:41,020 --> 00:43:38,720 started listening to them and watching 1091 00:43:43,359 --> 00:43:41,030 with their content it was mostly like 1092 00:43:45,730 --> 00:43:43,369 hey we're not gonna go into the no 1093 00:43:48,339 --> 00:43:45,740 planes and the the complete crazy 1094 00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:48,349 conspiracies of it these people that are 1095 00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:50,720 obviously qualified kind of had 1096 00:43:55,359 --> 00:43:53,510 questions about the collapse and that 1097 00:43:58,180 --> 00:43:55,369 that's why I did support them at the 1098 00:44:00,110 --> 00:43:58,190 beginning and really this has been you 1099 00:44:03,830 --> 00:44:00,120 know 18 years now 1100 00:44:05,390 --> 00:44:03,840 and it's it's hard to it's hard to 1101 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:05,400 continue this for a long time because 1102 00:44:09,980 --> 00:44:07,770 the the public perception for the most 1103 00:44:13,130 --> 00:44:09,990 part still is is that you know 1104 00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:13,140 terrorists came and I'd like to ask you 1105 00:44:18,350 --> 00:44:14,730 this question do you believe that there 1106 00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:18,360 was a passport found unscathed of one of 1107 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:22,230 the terrorists yeah I do how do you 1108 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:24,450 think that happens well 1109 00:44:31,070 --> 00:44:29,010 passports are very light and they would 1110 00:44:32,780 --> 00:44:31,080 have been in the front of the plane and 1111 00:44:37,730 --> 00:44:32,790 possibly like in a jacket pocket or 1112 00:44:40,070 --> 00:44:37,740 something like that and basically when 1113 00:44:41,810 --> 00:44:40,080 the plane entered the building it 1114 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:41,820 disintegrated because it got hit by a 1115 00:44:47,060 --> 00:44:43,770 bunch of columns and then there's a huge 1116 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:47,070 explosion and stuff got thrown out the 1117 00:44:53,450 --> 00:44:49,650 other side of the building and if 1118 00:44:56,330 --> 00:44:53,460 something is in a essentially low-speed 1119 00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:56,340 explosion like a fuel air explosion you 1120 00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:57,810 can just get pushed out by there by the 1121 00:45:03,770 --> 00:45:00,480 wind thing was there was lots of paper 1122 00:45:06,110 --> 00:45:03,780 on the on the ground you saw you know 1123 00:45:07,310 --> 00:45:06,120 what one of the more defining moments 1124 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:07,320 yeah from the bill from the office 1125 00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:09,450 building yeah yeah but and there were 1126 00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:11,280 also other things recovered from within 1127 00:45:15,530 --> 00:45:13,020 the plane and if you look at any plane 1128 00:45:17,660 --> 00:45:15,540 crash they pretty much all crashing a 1129 00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:17,670 ball of flame and yet when you look at 1130 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:20,760 the end results of them you see things 1131 00:45:25,940 --> 00:45:22,890 that are not burnt you see things that 1132 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:25,950 are even but you see passports if you 1133 00:45:30,620 --> 00:45:27,930 look at the plane the crash in the 1134 00:45:32,990 --> 00:45:30,630 Ukraine was shot down by a missile by a 1135 00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:33,000 buk missile they gathered all the 1136 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:35,550 passports and it was there was intent 1137 00:45:40,430 --> 00:45:37,410 intact human remains in that case but 1138 00:45:42,830 --> 00:45:40,440 you're not so much in the 9/11 case 1139 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:42,840 obviously but I don't think it's at all 1140 00:45:47,210 --> 00:45:44,610 implausible that small objects with a 1141 00:45:51,140 --> 00:45:47,220 small mass can survive you know we're 1142 00:45:52,580 --> 00:45:51,150 not talking about large things surviving 1143 00:45:54,020 --> 00:45:52,590 we're talking about small light things 1144 00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:54,030 like a passport which weighs like more 1145 00:45:59,480 --> 00:45:56,160 20 grams or something and it's inside a 1146 00:46:01,010 --> 00:45:59,490 Jacke pocket you can pretty much you 1147 00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:01,020 could set up a stick of dynamite next to 1148 00:46:08,060 --> 00:46:04,710 it and it would survive that to me is 1149 00:46:11,300 --> 00:46:08,070 completely implausible if not impossible 1150 00:46:12,940 --> 00:46:11,310 it's kind of it's very it's very telling 1151 00:46:15,579 --> 00:46:12,950 that you would to me too 1152 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:15,589 that you would say that in that event 1153 00:46:21,099 --> 00:46:17,450 that we could see through different 1154 00:46:22,810 --> 00:46:21,109 video cameras that magically a passport 1155 00:46:24,930 --> 00:46:22,820 it's not just less about there's all 1156 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:24,940 kinds of things with the seat cushions 1157 00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:28,010 from the plane we recovered it now if a 1158 00:46:33,069 --> 00:46:30,079 seat cushion can get it through why 1159 00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:33,079 couldn't a passport get through yeah 1160 00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:35,660 it's just oh I I kind of switch gears 1161 00:46:40,510 --> 00:46:38,510 really quickly we're about 15 minutes 1162 00:46:43,780 --> 00:46:40,520 left if you still wanted to do an hour 1163 00:46:48,130 --> 00:46:43,790 but are you okay with the big pharma and 1164 00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:48,140 israel lobby in america big fall but as 1165 00:46:55,780 --> 00:46:53,839 in pharmaceuticals yeah I'm not okay 1166 00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:55,790 with any lobbying company in America 1167 00:46:58,930 --> 00:46:57,050 because I think they all have their 1168 00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,940 their own self-interests heart and they 1169 00:47:02,290 --> 00:47:01,040 don't have the public interest and I 1170 00:47:06,940 --> 00:47:02,300 just think you know like we talked about 1171 00:47:09,130 --> 00:47:06,950 earlier the entire u.s. system of 1172 00:47:13,839 --> 00:47:09,140 government is corrupt because of all 1173 00:47:15,970 --> 00:47:13,849 this influence from lobbying so you know 1174 00:47:17,890 --> 00:47:15,980 I'm not okay with big farmers lobbying 1175 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:17,900 and the revolving door of regulatory 1176 00:47:26,380 --> 00:47:21,050 agent says I don't know what you mean by 1177 00:47:28,660 --> 00:47:26,390 the israel lobby but you know AIPAC yeah 1178 00:47:31,089 --> 00:47:28,670 but III not it's not sorry something I'm 1179 00:47:33,550 --> 00:47:31,099 very familiar with okay so what about 1180 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:33,560 what about how do you feel about the the 1181 00:47:38,890 --> 00:47:35,690 vaccine whistleblower about the possible 1182 00:47:42,190 --> 00:47:38,900 correlation of MMR and an autism I don't 1183 00:47:43,359 --> 00:47:42,200 think it's true if you look at what was 1184 00:47:45,940 --> 00:47:43,369 actually presented as being 1185 00:47:47,950 --> 00:47:45,950 whistleblowing it was it was just like 1186 00:47:49,270 --> 00:47:47,960 some report that if you look into it in 1187 00:47:52,809 --> 00:47:49,280 depth and I can't remember the details 1188 00:47:56,020 --> 00:47:52,819 right now it doesn't actually share a 1189 00:47:58,300 --> 00:47:56,030 conclusive correlation well let's let's 1190 00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,310 get our words right I did say possible 1191 00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:00,800 correlation and then you said conclusive 1192 00:48:04,180 --> 00:48:02,510 it's kind of like saying scientific 1193 00:48:07,420 --> 00:48:04,190 proof you know that's what flat earthers 1194 00:48:09,490 --> 00:48:07,430 like to say so there's lots of other 1195 00:48:11,230 --> 00:48:09,500 studies besides that that don't share a 1196 00:48:14,410 --> 00:48:11,240 correlation in fact you could show quite 1197 00:48:17,950 --> 00:48:14,420 conclusively by doing large population 1198 00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:17,960 studies there is no link between the 1199 00:48:23,319 --> 00:48:20,240 vaccine and autism so when all these 1200 00:48:24,980 --> 00:48:23,329 parents come out and and say that they 1201 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:24,990 had a happy 1202 00:48:30,859 --> 00:48:28,410 vibrant vibrant little kid and they go 1203 00:48:33,470 --> 00:48:30,869 and take you know their their shots that 1204 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:33,480 are supposedly safe for them and they 1205 00:48:39,790 --> 00:48:36,690 come home and they see you know they see 1206 00:48:43,970 --> 00:48:39,800 seizures they see them become autistic 1207 00:48:48,740 --> 00:48:43,980 over the years and also obviously in 1208 00:48:52,010 --> 00:48:48,750 1986 they passed the whole you can sue 1209 00:48:54,020 --> 00:48:52,020 basically the vaccine companies I mean 1210 00:48:57,230 --> 00:48:54,030 don't you see that there's any kind of 1211 00:49:01,510 --> 00:48:57,240 correlation between this kind of this 1212 00:49:05,210 --> 00:49:01,520 huge conglomerate of obviously monetary 1213 00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:05,220 regard that they could be giving fake 1214 00:49:11,630 --> 00:49:08,910 science or hiding science or paying yeah 1215 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:11,640 you guys'll do it if you look at things 1216 00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:15,570 like tobacco yep you know obviously 1217 00:49:19,579 --> 00:49:17,369 there was cover-ups back then where 1218 00:49:21,950 --> 00:49:19,589 people covered up evidence of wrongdoing 1219 00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:21,960 of you know the harmful effects of 1220 00:49:26,599 --> 00:49:25,200 tobacco and nicotine so if you just look 1221 00:49:29,060 --> 00:49:26,609 at that you know it seems I show though 1222 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:29,070 that there could be big pharma covering 1223 00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:31,290 things up and it probably are instances 1224 00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:33,720 where Big Pharma is covering for at 1225 00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:36,089 least trying to hide bad results on 1226 00:49:41,690 --> 00:49:37,710 certain things but when you look at 1227 00:49:43,630 --> 00:49:41,700 things like the MMR vaccine there is a 1228 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:43,640 huge amount of independent research 1229 00:49:48,530 --> 00:49:47,130 that's been done not just by the 1230 00:49:49,700 --> 00:49:48,540 manufacturers well I'm just talking 1231 00:49:51,380 --> 00:49:49,710 about the other manufacturers study 1232 00:49:53,570 --> 00:49:51,390 we're talking about government exam 1233 00:49:55,310 --> 00:49:53,580 who's paying they just do it on their 1234 00:49:57,950 --> 00:49:55,320 own goodwill government the government 1235 00:49:59,450 --> 00:49:57,960 pays them it's a lot of government 1236 00:50:02,450 --> 00:49:59,460 grants for this type of thing and other 1237 00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:02,460 countries do it and every pharmaceutical 1238 00:50:06,079 --> 00:50:04,050 companies paying these independent 1239 00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:06,089 researchers I'm sure those instances 1240 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:08,730 whether I gotta keep you honest man 1241 00:50:12,349 --> 00:50:10,770 because sometimes your wording seems 1242 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:12,359 like you're trying to play things off 1243 00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:14,730 and then we have to kind of go ahead and 1244 00:50:19,490 --> 00:50:17,310 try to be my enough I know I agree with 1245 00:50:23,450 --> 00:50:19,500 you that it's a profit motive but with 1246 00:50:27,710 --> 00:50:23,460 vaccines it doesn't really make any 1247 00:50:30,290 --> 00:50:27,720 sense yeah how much money are they 1248 00:50:32,060 --> 00:50:30,300 actually making from vaccines they're 1249 00:50:34,460 --> 00:50:32,070 essentially enough to have Gery 1250 00:50:35,839 --> 00:50:34,470 basically the biggest lobby enough to 1251 00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:35,849 have the biggest Lobby basically in 1252 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:36,960 America 1253 00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:39,210 pay these politicians that are supposed 1254 00:50:45,470 --> 00:50:42,960 to be working for us us Americans that 1255 00:50:47,150 --> 00:50:45,480 end up being career politicians that 1256 00:50:49,099 --> 00:50:47,160 come out being you know hundreds of 1257 00:50:50,359 --> 00:50:49,109 millions of dollars or you know tens of 1258 00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:50,369 millions and there's all these 1259 00:50:56,569 --> 00:50:53,690 independent research that at some point 1260 00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:56,579 would reveal that this is going on 1261 00:51:00,799 --> 00:50:58,410 it really vaccines are really this this 1262 00:51:03,079 --> 00:51:00,809 big of a problem then it would be 1263 00:51:05,450 --> 00:51:03,089 apparent in the data it's not something 1264 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:05,460 we're sort of sweep under it's kind of 1265 00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:06,930 like climate change it's kind of like 1266 00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:08,880 climate change I mean there's quite a 1267 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:11,760 bit of money tied up with these these 1268 00:51:16,010 --> 00:51:14,130 whole companies and and really I'm kind 1269 00:51:18,260 --> 00:51:16,020 of the stance of you know it 1270 00:51:20,930 --> 00:51:18,270 epistemological II I can't you know I 1271 00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:20,940 don't know that there's climate change 1272 00:51:24,829 --> 00:51:23,520 or I don't you know I know that there's 1273 00:51:27,740 --> 00:51:24,839 not climate change or anything like that 1274 00:51:30,319 --> 00:51:27,750 but I try to see like the motives behind 1275 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:30,329 these these things and I try to listen 1276 00:51:34,190 --> 00:51:31,890 to debates I go to Medibank I go to 1277 00:51:36,020 --> 00:51:34,200 Snopes I listen to conspiracy theorists 1278 00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:36,030 I try to disseminate the information for 1279 00:51:42,109 --> 00:51:38,970 myself and at the end of the day a lot 1280 00:51:43,609 --> 00:51:42,119 of times there are agendas that happen 1281 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:43,619 and a lot of these people are actually 1282 00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:47,010 being funded by a big oil or big pharma 1283 00:51:54,349 --> 00:51:51,450 or even the drug or yeah and it seems as 1284 00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:54,359 though yeah I said there's a conflict of 1285 00:51:57,770 --> 00:51:56,160 interest we can we shouldn't just trust 1286 00:52:00,920 --> 00:51:57,780 everything on his face we should look at 1287 00:52:02,809 --> 00:52:00,930 look at the broader picture yeah but 1288 00:52:04,819 --> 00:52:02,819 yeah we break out like a ten minutes or 1289 00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:04,829 so left can we talk a bit about your 1290 00:52:09,710 --> 00:52:07,280 work with Flat Earth debunking 1291 00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:09,720 absolutely yeah what why did you start 1292 00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:12,569 doing that from the very beginning 1293 00:52:16,970 --> 00:52:15,030 basically for two weeks I wouldn't say I 1294 00:52:19,069 --> 00:52:16,980 was a flat earther but I was very 1295 00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:19,079 conspiratorial and minded I was down the 1296 00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:20,640 rabbit hole and as you probably would 1297 00:52:25,970 --> 00:52:24,240 put it and so I was deeply researching 1298 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:25,980 into it and one of the first things I 1299 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:28,890 did was I would go to Goodwill and look 1300 00:52:36,319 --> 00:52:31,770 at you know older books and I think one 1301 00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:36,329 of them was like a 1913 astronomy book 1302 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:39,089 like practical astronomy and into how 1303 00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:41,970 there's there's obviously two celestial 1304 00:52:47,660 --> 00:52:45,359 points and this is something that flat 1305 00:52:49,789 --> 00:52:47,670 earthers cannot reconcile with even 1306 00:52:50,420 --> 00:52:49,799 still this day and things like the Sun 1307 00:52:53,180 --> 00:52:50,430 not changed 1308 00:52:55,359 --> 00:52:53,190 sighs throughout the day and and rising 1309 00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:55,369 and setting and the moon doing the same 1310 00:52:58,520 --> 00:52:57,690 these things couldn't be reconciled with 1311 00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:58,530 for me 1312 00:53:03,799 --> 00:53:01,200 so being that I was breaking my 1313 00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:03,809 conspiratorial bias due to the Flat 1314 00:53:08,660 --> 00:53:06,510 Earth truthfully I I was naive enough to 1315 00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:08,670 think that I could come out and try to 1316 00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:11,369 help people to find to truly be 1317 00:53:17,390 --> 00:53:13,680 quote-unquote awake to this whole 1318 00:53:19,220 --> 00:53:17,400 situation of this is a lie this is 1319 00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:19,230 something you know we mean you really 1320 00:53:23,569 --> 00:53:21,660 can't prove the intentions and the 1321 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:23,579 motives behind the people that may or 1322 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:25,890 may not have been involved with 9/11 but 1323 00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:28,410 me and you can go out and test the shape 1324 00:53:34,670 --> 00:53:31,890 of the earth so I went to Great Salt 1325 00:53:36,829 --> 00:53:34,680 Lake which is an absolute killer for 1326 00:53:38,540 --> 00:53:36,839 Flat Earth I mean you have mountains at 1327 00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:38,550 different distances all around you 1328 00:53:42,829 --> 00:53:41,250 sometimes you're standing right next to 1329 00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:42,839 the water and you can see a mountain 1330 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:44,640 that's 85 miles away you can see the 1331 00:53:50,930 --> 00:53:48,530 Whitecaps sitting on the water and so 1332 00:53:53,420 --> 00:53:50,940 basically my whole thing was and I'm 1333 00:53:56,180 --> 00:53:53,430 done with Flat Earth truthfully but four 1334 00:53:58,280 --> 00:53:56,190 and a half years of trying to keep these 1335 00:54:00,530 --> 00:53:58,290 people on us the Jaron ism's the dirts 1336 00:54:02,299 --> 00:54:00,540 the all these people trying to keep him 1337 00:54:04,370 --> 00:54:02,309 honest because in my opinion and I've 1338 00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:04,380 said it for years they're trying this is 1339 00:54:08,539 --> 00:54:06,960 a PSYOP a psychological operation to 1340 00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:08,549 basically make us look 1341 00:54:12,079 --> 00:54:10,319 tarus all with the same brush to make us 1342 00:54:15,020 --> 00:54:12,089 look stupid and then a couple years 1343 00:54:18,079 --> 00:54:15,030 later we see any time you put in Flat 1344 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:18,089 Earth in the news you see anti-vaxxers 1345 00:54:23,630 --> 00:54:20,970 you see every can I know 11 conspiracy 1346 00:54:26,799 --> 00:54:23,640 so exactly what I was saying to reach 1347 00:54:29,420 --> 00:54:26,809 the public psyche is happening in that 1348 00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:29,430 conspiracies are dumb and they're all 1349 00:54:33,740 --> 00:54:31,680 debunked because they're just a bunch of 1350 00:54:36,589 --> 00:54:33,750 wackos and whack jobs thinking of you 1351 00:54:39,799 --> 00:54:36,599 know mud floods and all this and so 1352 00:54:41,599 --> 00:54:39,809 I thought I was very naive that I could 1353 00:54:43,220 --> 00:54:41,609 come out and say hey look there's 1354 00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:43,230 evidence that you can go and see look at 1355 00:54:48,740 --> 00:54:45,839 the stars so for the first two years I 1356 00:54:50,210 --> 00:54:48,750 was saying things like that and then I 1357 00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:50,220 decided to go ahead and use some of my 1358 00:54:56,450 --> 00:54:53,280 equipment my drones and and I got a two 1359 00:54:59,150 --> 00:54:56,460 p900 sexualy d 3200 i got a bunch of 1360 00:55:01,760 --> 00:54:59,160 equipment and I went out to Lake Tahoe I 1361 00:55:03,170 --> 00:55:01,770 went to Great Salt Lake I went all over 1362 00:55:06,739 --> 00:55:03,180 doing Star 1363 00:55:09,650 --> 00:55:06,749 Photography doing just photography of 1364 00:55:12,499 --> 00:55:09,660 things being obstructed like Salt Lake 1365 00:55:15,019 --> 00:55:12,509 City is is like 350 feet is obstructed 1366 00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:15,029 over 26 miles I mean it's just you can 1367 00:55:18,049 --> 00:55:16,559 go out there and because the water 1368 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:18,059 temperature is so close to the air 1369 00:55:22,370 --> 00:55:20,490 temperature a lot of times there's not 1370 00:55:24,259 --> 00:55:22,380 too many temperature inversions 1371 00:55:27,799 --> 00:55:24,269 happening so you can go out there on a 1372 00:55:33,140 --> 00:55:27,809 decent day and see the effects of the 1373 00:55:35,210 --> 00:55:33,150 Earth's curvature so it never was enough 1374 00:55:37,279 --> 00:55:35,220 it was purely rhetoric for the first 1375 00:55:39,370 --> 00:55:37,289 couple years and then I came out with 1376 00:55:42,170 --> 00:55:39,380 evidence the drone is absolutely killer 1377 00:55:44,059 --> 00:55:42,180 seeing Strong's nob from 37 miles away 1378 00:55:46,130 --> 00:55:44,069 you can't see it until you're about 15 1379 00:55:47,839 --> 00:55:46,140 feet up and you start rising and you 1380 00:55:49,220 --> 00:55:47,849 start to see more and more of not only 1381 00:55:51,380 --> 00:55:49,230 strong snot but all of the other 1382 00:55:54,289 --> 00:55:51,390 mountains so this is indicative to me of 1383 00:55:57,620 --> 00:55:54,299 a curved surface so unfortunately the 1384 00:55:59,420 --> 00:55:57,630 Flat Earth argument has evolved into its 1385 00:56:01,849 --> 00:55:59,430 final stages of the infinite regression 1386 00:56:04,249 --> 00:56:01,859 where they're talking about atmosphere 1387 00:56:06,170 --> 00:56:04,259 without a container and the second law 1388 00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:06,180 of thermodynamics and entropy when they 1389 00:56:11,599 --> 00:56:09,059 have zero idea what these physics 1390 00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:11,609 concepts actually mean but they'll 1391 00:56:16,940 --> 00:56:13,920 continue to evolve their arguments and 1392 00:56:18,739 --> 00:56:16,950 their arguments are at the final 1393 00:56:21,319 --> 00:56:18,749 regression in my opinion to where 1394 00:56:23,539 --> 00:56:21,329 they'll continue they'll die on a hill 1395 00:56:26,089 --> 00:56:23,549 to say these things continuously and 1396 00:56:28,579 --> 00:56:26,099 literally think in their own mind that 1397 00:56:30,769 --> 00:56:28,589 the earth is flat and these are good 1398 00:56:32,690 --> 00:56:30,779 arguments for it yeah it's quite a 1399 00:56:38,569 --> 00:56:32,700 challenge I remember starting out 1400 00:56:40,970 --> 00:56:38,579 debunking chemtrails back in 2007 and I 1401 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:40,980 naively thought that I could just find 1402 00:56:45,979 --> 00:56:43,170 the correct explanations for contrails 1403 00:56:47,660 --> 00:56:45,989 and get them to people and then that 1404 00:56:50,930 --> 00:56:47,670 would be it but of course you know here 1405 00:56:54,739 --> 00:56:50,940 we are watch 16 years later 17 years 1406 00:57:00,349 --> 00:56:54,749 later 18 years later good grief I kind 1407 00:57:02,450 --> 00:57:00,359 of liken it to somewhat of a cult or and 1408 00:57:03,540 --> 00:57:02,460 or some kind of a religious movement 1409 00:57:05,609 --> 00:57:03,550 where 1410 00:57:08,190 --> 00:57:05,619 you know it's kind of anomalous when 1411 00:57:10,829 --> 00:57:08,200 we're trying to well God doesn't exist 1412 00:57:12,900 --> 00:57:10,839 or God does exist well this is this is 1413 00:57:14,910 --> 00:57:12,910 something where we can like I said go 1414 00:57:17,609 --> 00:57:14,920 out and actually test it and find these 1415 00:57:20,010 --> 00:57:17,619 things for ourselves and it's still to 1416 00:57:22,170 --> 00:57:20,020 where I've only seen probably about ten 1417 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:22,180 people because of my work and some other 1418 00:57:26,220 --> 00:57:24,250 people's work that have come out of the 1419 00:57:28,500 --> 00:57:26,230 Flat Earth and come back to the globe 1420 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:28,510 and there's this huge community aspect 1421 00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:29,890 to it where these people are so 1422 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:32,290 disenfranchised most likely due to all 1423 00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:34,690 their conspiracy knowledge over the 1424 00:57:39,359 --> 00:57:36,640 years and so they they find a 1425 00:57:41,309 --> 00:57:39,369 like-minded group and they also have 1426 00:57:43,530 --> 00:57:41,319 something where the tiger Dan's the 1427 00:57:46,410 --> 00:57:43,540 matrix decodes the people that come out 1428 00:57:49,170 --> 00:57:46,420 of Flat Earth end up getting absolutely 1429 00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:49,180 stomped on by flat-earthers I mean I saw 1430 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:51,609 things from Tiger dancing I if you run 1431 00:57:55,890 --> 00:57:53,530 fire I wouldn't I wouldn't piss on you I 1432 00:57:57,089 --> 00:57:55,900 mean it was just it was so terrible how 1433 00:57:59,099 --> 00:57:57,099 they treat people that come out of 1434 00:58:01,260 --> 00:57:59,109 flatters so when you have this kind of 1435 00:58:03,809 --> 00:58:01,270 belief in in this whole community aspect 1436 00:58:05,849 --> 00:58:03,819 to it it's really really hard to get 1437 00:58:07,049 --> 00:58:05,859 them out of it unfortunately yeah it's 1438 00:58:09,750 --> 00:58:07,059 interesting because sometimes people 1439 00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:09,760 talk about how mainstream scientists 1440 00:58:14,220 --> 00:58:11,440 don't look at 911 because they're afraid 1441 00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,230 of what it will do but it is also the 1442 00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:16,240 opposite effects that you just described 1443 00:58:22,620 --> 00:58:19,920 where people in a conspiracy culture 1444 00:58:24,450 --> 00:58:22,630 you've got this whole social dynamic 1445 00:58:25,740 --> 00:58:24,460 where if they come out they're going to 1446 00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:25,750 be ostracized and they're going to lose 1447 00:58:30,539 --> 00:58:28,569 essentially at our family yeah a lot of 1448 00:58:32,789 --> 00:58:30,549 it if people have a good time doing 1449 00:58:36,210 --> 00:58:32,799 these things I'm going to go to the Flat 1450 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:36,220 Earth Expo escaping the matrix Expo in 1451 00:58:43,230 --> 00:58:41,290 Las Vegas in a couple of weeks and you 1452 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:43,240 know I kind of expects that people to be 1453 00:58:50,510 --> 00:58:47,650 having a good time having talking about 1454 00:58:53,370 --> 00:58:50,520 their shared beliefs and their shared 1455 00:58:55,980 --> 00:58:53,380 interests and you see people having Flat 1456 00:58:58,079 --> 00:58:55,990 Earth parties and they're all like you 1457 00:58:59,940 --> 00:58:58,089 know it's an immediate happy family and 1458 00:59:02,000 --> 00:58:59,950 you probably have the same thing in in 1459 00:59:05,370 --> 00:59:02,010 every every field like UFOs 1460 00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:05,380 9/11 and then if you have anti-vaccine 1461 00:59:09,780 --> 00:59:06,970 parties but you know quite possibly 1462 00:59:11,460 --> 00:59:09,790 people get together in a social social 1463 00:59:14,299 --> 00:59:11,470 setting so there's a an interesting 1464 00:59:16,740 --> 00:59:14,309 dynamic that's difficult to get past 1465 00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:16,750 yeah and I was actually going to talk to 1466 00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:17,200 you about 1467 00:59:21,870 --> 00:59:19,390 because infinite plane Society just 1468 00:59:24,660 --> 00:59:21,880 emailed me with my quest first Nathan 1469 00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:24,670 Thompson I don't know if you've heard of 1470 00:59:30,530 --> 00:59:28,089 Nathan Thompson but I feel as if I PS is 1471 00:59:33,569 --> 00:59:30,540 actually setting him up to fail 1472 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:33,579 considering he's in my opinion one of 1473 00:59:36,900 --> 00:59:35,770 the worst flat earthers I've actually 1474 00:59:42,589 --> 00:59:36,910 kicked him out of his bladder 1475 00:59:45,390 --> 00:59:42,599 you know but he he's got a good memory 1476 00:59:48,329 --> 00:59:45,400 so he can reel off a whole bunch of 1477 00:59:50,670 --> 00:59:48,339 things I have a I've looked at a few of 1478 00:59:54,180 --> 00:59:50,680 his videos and I've been hanging out on 1479 00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:54,190 his his Facebook group so yeah he 1480 00:59:58,109 --> 00:59:55,930 doesn't give very good arguments and 1481 01:00:02,420 --> 00:59:58,119 they usually easily refused it and they 1482 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:02,430 just ignores the explanation so I'm not 1483 01:00:06,030 --> 01:00:04,570 yeah I'm not sure how what the 1484 01:00:07,620 --> 01:00:06,040 organizers are thinking specifically I 1485 01:00:08,010 --> 01:00:07,630 don't think they were setting him up to 1486 01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:08,020 fail 1487 01:00:11,700 --> 01:00:09,790 perhaps just he's the only person they 1488 01:00:14,970 --> 01:00:11,710 could get because they're kind of a 1489 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:14,980 little bit on the fringe with Mad Mike 1490 01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:17,530 and the infinite plane Society don't 1491 01:00:22,349 --> 01:00:19,359 seem to be really mainstream Flat Earth 1492 01:00:23,550 --> 01:00:22,359 if there is such a thing yeah and if you 1493 01:00:27,300 --> 01:00:23,560 actually listen to infinite plane 1494 01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:27,310 Society does shows you know probably 1495 01:00:34,770 --> 01:00:29,770 like 12:00 1:00 o'clock your time in the 1496 01:00:37,349 --> 01:00:34,780 night he talks about mostly these death 1497 01:00:39,809 --> 01:00:37,359 fakers and truthfully the guy is very 1498 01:00:41,910 --> 01:00:39,819 intelligent but I think there's some 1499 01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:41,920 ulterior motive with what he does I'm 1500 01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:43,510 not really sure that he actually holds 1501 01:00:47,910 --> 01:00:45,490 these beliefs but he does continue to 1502 01:00:51,150 --> 01:00:47,920 talk about him for hours and hours about 1503 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:51,160 the hustle which is you know I'm not 1504 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:52,690 into the numerology and I'm sure you've 1505 01:00:59,010 --> 01:00:55,210 seen a lot of that nonsense but the 1506 01:01:02,220 --> 01:00:59,020 there is some striking like correlations 1507 01:01:04,740 --> 01:01:02,230 to be made with just that one but you 1508 01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:04,750 know the Isaac Cappy or whatever that 1509 01:01:09,390 --> 01:01:06,880 guy just killed himself I guess the 1510 01:01:11,609 --> 01:01:09,400 other day and you know that was the 1511 01:01:14,220 --> 01:01:11,619 discussion last night where it's a death 1512 01:01:18,540 --> 01:01:14,230 fake or possible death faker and so he 1513 01:01:21,450 --> 01:01:18,550 almost is almost like a high functioning 1514 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:21,460 intellect but also somewhat to me at the 1515 01:01:27,089 --> 01:01:23,890 bottom of the barrel of conspiracies and 1516 01:01:28,410 --> 01:01:27,099 I've personally when he came out to City 1517 01:01:30,630 --> 01:01:28,420 Council or something and started talking 1518 01:01:32,099 --> 01:01:30,640 about bubbles and space and green 1519 01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:32,109 screens and all this stuff I literally 1520 01:01:36,420 --> 01:01:33,760 went through all of his all of his 1521 01:01:39,299 --> 01:01:36,430 claims and showed him why he's wrong the 1522 01:01:41,370 --> 01:01:39,309 Nomex blue demonstration screen that 1523 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:41,380 derth first said that it was a green 1524 01:01:46,349 --> 01:01:43,450 screen which had white checker boards on 1525 01:01:48,380 --> 01:01:46,359 it was in the payload of the ESA was I 1526 01:01:51,930 --> 01:01:48,390 mean I showed all this stuff to him and 1527 01:01:53,970 --> 01:01:51,940 you know it's just if it seems to fall 1528 01:01:56,430 --> 01:01:53,980 on deaf ears and I don't know why I 1529 01:01:58,620 --> 01:01:56,440 don't I don't understand why he has this 1530 01:02:01,140 --> 01:01:58,630 Pacific called himself an auto hoaxer 1531 01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:01,150 where he claims like he's taking the 1532 01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:03,010 default position that everything is fake 1533 01:02:10,049 --> 01:02:06,480 and you have to prove to him otherwise 1534 01:02:13,769 --> 01:02:10,059 which i think is kind of an extreme 1535 01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:13,779 position because you know I'm close to 1536 01:02:17,490 --> 01:02:15,730 it because it's it's it's the default 1537 01:02:20,730 --> 01:02:17,500 position I suppose you could say of 1538 01:02:23,009 --> 01:02:20,740 somebody disenfranchised by known liars 1539 01:02:25,109 --> 01:02:23,019 like the mainstream media I don't watch 1540 01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:25,119 it because all I see is agenda it 1541 01:02:28,620 --> 01:02:27,130 actually doesn't make me feel good at 1542 01:02:31,009 --> 01:02:28,630 all to watch these people do what they 1543 01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:31,019 do then you got your your pharmaceutical 1544 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:34,240 commercials right out of it it's just 1545 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:36,970 it's astounding what America has become 1546 01:02:42,599 --> 01:02:40,930 and I feel to a certain extent it would 1547 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:42,609 be nice and I haven't read your book yet 1548 01:02:47,069 --> 01:02:44,890 but it would be nice if you actually and 1549 01:02:49,529 --> 01:02:47,079 I think you did actually go into things 1550 01:02:51,269 --> 01:02:49,539 that are are known conspiracies because 1551 01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:51,279 a lot of times those known conspiracies 1552 01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:53,170 say Mockingbird or some of these things 1553 01:02:59,220 --> 01:02:56,170 have a nugget of truth in them when you 1554 01:03:01,650 --> 01:02:59,230 hear from a conspiracy minded person but 1555 01:03:03,930 --> 01:03:01,660 then you can also deconstruct some of 1556 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:03,940 the obvious fakery that they're saying 1557 01:03:08,490 --> 01:03:06,730 about that yeah yeah this is where I 1558 01:03:11,970 --> 01:03:08,500 personally hope to make a difference is 1559 01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:11,980 and just basically figuring out things 1560 01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:14,799 that are false and promoting them like I 1561 01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:17,609 did yeah I don't look at things like 1562 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:20,410 vaccines because there's so many of the 1563 01:03:24,089 --> 01:03:21,970 people talking about it and people don't 1564 01:03:25,710 --> 01:03:24,099 know a lot more about it than I do there 1565 01:03:28,019 --> 01:03:25,720 really wasn't very many people doing 1566 01:03:30,740 --> 01:03:28,029 investigating into the chemtrails stuff 1567 01:03:32,999 --> 01:03:30,750 you know even now like with Flat Earth 1568 01:03:35,430 --> 01:03:33,009 there's so many people debunking flat 1569 01:03:38,609 --> 01:03:35,440 enough now it's but and it's become a 1570 01:03:40,470 --> 01:03:38,619 circus in a way it's basically like one 1571 01:03:42,809 --> 01:03:40,480 side saying the other side is an idiot 1572 01:03:43,890 --> 01:03:42,819 and then the other side making of this 1573 01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:43,900 more and more 1574 01:03:47,069 --> 01:03:46,089 explanations for things and then 1575 01:03:51,329 --> 01:03:47,079 the other side 1576 01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:51,339 debunking that and really AI kind of I 1577 01:03:55,890 --> 01:03:53,049 think I might be out to Flat Earth after 1578 01:03:57,470 --> 01:03:55,900 this conference if yeah nothing really 1579 01:04:00,539 --> 01:03:57,480 changes it's gonna be an interesting 1580 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:00,549 interesting meeting all these people who 1581 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:02,770 actually presumably some of them 1582 01:04:07,799 --> 01:04:05,410 genuinely hold these beliefs so I really 1583 01:04:09,660 --> 01:04:07,809 would like to try to you know figure out 1584 01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:09,670 what makes them tick and hopefully I'll 1585 01:04:17,010 --> 01:04:14,650 meet some of them yeah it's uh I hope 1586 01:04:19,049 --> 01:04:17,020 you will be actually because actually 1587 01:04:20,940 --> 01:04:19,059 what happens is and I totally agree with 1588 01:04:22,710 --> 01:04:20,950 you there's these fight the flat Earth's 1589 01:04:24,990 --> 01:04:22,720 these team skeptics these people that 1590 01:04:27,390 --> 01:04:25,000 literally have on the backs of Flat 1591 01:04:30,150 --> 01:04:27,400 Earth in my opinion SIA have made a 1592 01:04:31,799 --> 01:04:30,160 business out of how to quote unquote 1593 01:04:33,329 --> 01:04:31,809 debunking it and a lot of time they're 1594 01:04:35,819 --> 01:04:33,339 wrong and a lot of time they'll say that 1595 01:04:38,220 --> 01:04:35,829 these people are mentally ill but also 1596 01:04:41,069 --> 01:04:38,230 then berate them continuously saying 1597 01:04:43,500 --> 01:04:41,079 they're effing idiots or they're you 1598 01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:43,510 know pieces whatever and and so it's 1599 01:04:48,779 --> 01:04:46,569 like you know you don't go to your local 1600 01:04:50,549 --> 01:04:48,789 crazy house and start calling these 1601 01:04:52,500 --> 01:04:50,559 people idiots and all this kind of stuff 1602 01:04:55,289 --> 01:04:52,510 there's there's a certain amount of tact 1603 01:04:57,420 --> 01:04:55,299 that's necessary and for me at the 1604 01:04:59,819 --> 01:04:57,430 beginning I wasn't tactful I was very 1605 01:05:02,309 --> 01:04:59,829 aleck I did I did some bad things 1606 01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:02,319 probably within the first year but I 1607 01:05:08,130 --> 01:05:05,170 started to kind of it started to grow on 1608 01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:08,140 me a little bit and I've actually it's 1609 01:05:13,410 --> 01:05:10,210 changed my life and it seems really 1610 01:05:16,019 --> 01:05:13,420 stupid but I can tell you from a very 1611 01:05:19,559 --> 01:05:16,029 like hardcore conspiracy theorist before 1612 01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:19,569 flatterfit it's changed my life so much 1613 01:05:24,779 --> 01:05:22,690 that I'm not you know on the complete 1614 01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:24,789 mainstream side I'm not on the complete 1615 01:05:28,140 --> 01:05:26,170 conspiracy side I'm somewhere in the 1616 01:05:30,750 --> 01:05:28,150 middle and you know everybody wants to 1617 01:05:33,420 --> 01:05:30,760 see things in black and white but I'm in 1618 01:05:35,460 --> 01:05:33,430 the middle where you know I try not to 1619 01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:35,470 try not to say things that I don't 1620 01:05:39,779 --> 01:05:37,450 personally know and if that gets into 1621 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:39,789 epistemology and a lot of philosophy as 1622 01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:42,250 well but a lot of stuff I was saying 1623 01:05:47,490 --> 01:05:45,010 before I just heard from like Alex Jones 1624 01:05:49,079 --> 01:05:47,500 or I heard from here and there and I 1625 01:05:50,579 --> 01:05:49,089 wasn't going to the meta bunks I wasn't 1626 01:05:53,099 --> 01:05:50,589 going to the Snopes to fact-check 1627 01:05:55,140 --> 01:05:53,109 and and there's a lot of times where I 1628 01:05:56,770 --> 01:05:55,150 go to Snopes and I'm like this didn't 1629 01:06:00,040 --> 01:05:56,780 even actually and 1630 01:06:03,370 --> 01:06:00,050 the question and this is just a complete 1631 01:06:06,010 --> 01:06:03,380 whitewash of what happened so you know 1632 01:06:08,740 --> 01:06:06,020 I'm still able to disseminate the 1633 01:06:11,470 --> 01:06:08,750 information basically but we are passed 1634 01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:11,480 our our mark man I appreciate you having 1635 01:06:17,860 --> 01:06:14,090 a chat and you know it seems that we're 1636 01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:17,870 kind of at odds as far as some of our 1637 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:21,050 beliefs but at the end of the day this 1638 01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:23,090 is how you can come and talk to somebody 1639 01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:26,450 and and not be vitriolic and share ideas 1640 01:06:32,140 --> 01:06:29,690 and hey you know I'll always say things 1641 01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:32,150 like the passport I think you're another 1642 01:06:37,540 --> 01:06:35,210 well well laugh about it like it's cool 1643 01:06:39,550 --> 01:06:37,550 yeah I think like with passports it's 1644 01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:39,560 almost like it makes me want to do an 1645 01:06:44,620 --> 01:06:41,570 experiment with a small fuel-air bomb 1646 01:06:47,110 --> 01:06:44,630 and I've actually kept some of my old 1647 01:06:48,730 --> 01:06:47,120 passports for that reason I I have an 1648 01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:48,740 old passport and I took a page out of it 1649 01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:51,890 and I soaked it in in kerosene and set 1650 01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:53,330 it on fire just to see what would happen 1651 01:06:58,360 --> 01:06:56,930 with it and it's so it's it's something 1652 01:07:00,010 --> 01:06:58,370 I've been thinking about it just because 1653 01:07:01,990 --> 01:07:00,020 it is you know like it's very 1654 01:07:03,850 --> 01:07:02,000 counterintuitive and it's one of these 1655 01:07:06,490 --> 01:07:03,860 arguments that's compelling because it's 1656 01:07:08,020 --> 01:07:06,500 it's hard to to counter it just with 1657 01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:08,030 words you really have to do a 1658 01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:10,730 demonstration of what's going on so 1659 01:07:14,980 --> 01:07:13,010 maybe one day I will try blowing up a 1660 01:07:16,810 --> 01:07:14,990 passport and you know you're here out in 1661 01:07:19,740 --> 01:07:16,820 the desert or you access to the desert 1662 01:07:24,490 --> 01:07:19,750 so maybe you could pop out there with 1663 01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:24,500 Kerry Bob and a jug full of gasoline and 1664 01:07:28,210 --> 01:07:26,960 a couple of nice words all right well 1665 01:07:30,220 --> 01:07:28,220 thank you very much this has been a 1666 01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:30,230 fascinating discussion and like you say 1667 01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:32,210 I think it's it's you know good that we 1668 01:07:36,100 --> 01:07:33,680 can talk like this even though we do 1669 01:07:38,070 --> 01:07:36,110 have some areas of disagreement because 1670 01:07:40,180 --> 01:07:38,080 have some areas of agreement and we can 1671 01:07:43,450 --> 01:07:40,190 look at where the boundary of those 1672 01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:43,460 areas are and work around that awesome